New Rule For Attacks With Hostile Figures?

[cnemmick 819]

The following imgur has two pix:

* Rules from the Rules Reference Guide on performing attacks with hostile figures.

* Rules from HotE Guide

The HotE rules are a significant change, right? I didn't see where it has been worded this way before.

https://imgur.com/gallery/rH4ah

[a1bert 4,115]

The use of power tokens are a figure's ability, it has been simply clarified that they are.

Otherwise I think the wording was already fixed for the Besbin Gambit and Murne. The difference is minor but important compared to RRG.

Besbin Gambit said:

· Some abilities allow players to perform an attack with
  a hostile figure. To resolve such an attack, the player
  resolving the ability controls the hostile figure for the
  duration of that attack.
  -- The player resolving the ability chooses the target
     of the attack. All non-neutral figures are considered
     hostile and no figures are considered friendly while
     performing this attack. The figure cannot target
     itself.
  -- During a campaign, while a Rebel player is
     attacking with an Imperial figure or the Imperial
     player is attacking with a Rebel figure, that figure
     is considered to be both Rebel and Imperial by
     mission rules.
  -- A figure that uses such an ability does not count as
     having performed an attack.

(The part about losing line of sight is from the FAQ, but misses "and in line of sight" for the Reach part.)

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by a1bert

[bokepasa 36]

Regarding this rule, can Palpatine use a hostile figure within 4 spaces to attack by using his Emperor ability?

We have a discussion in our group and we don't get a clear answer. Different interpretations of the same rule.

Thanks

[a1bert 4,115]

Emperor can choose a hostile figure to perform an attack. Palpatine doesn't get to control the figure though. Emperor is like Executive Order or Command or Order Hit. The controller of the hostile figure chooses who to attack, and can only attack hostile figures, which means your figures (or objects that can be attacked).

False Orders, Lure of the Dark Side, and Embrace Suffering perform an attack with a figure.

A third way is Verena performing an attack with attack dice and attack type of another figure.

 

[Armandhammer 431]

1 hour ago, a1bert said:

Emperor can choose a hostile figure to perform an attack. Palpatine doesn't get to control the figure though. Emperor is like Executive Order or Command or Order Hit. The controller of the hostile figure chooses who to attack, and can only attack hostile figures, which means your figures (or objects that can be attacked).

Huh, never really thought of it like that.

But it's interesting that the ability on the emperor's card states: "another figure" while executive order (on the elite officer) states: "another friendly figure"

Why would the imperial player ever let a Rebel figure attack an imperial figure/mission objective?

Why does Murne Rin's False orders ability work differently? 

 

[a1bert 4,115]

There is no space on Palpatine's card for Emperor to have the largely redundant "friendly". The command card has it though. (There are corner cases in 4-p free-for-all skirmish where allowing a hostile figure attacks may be advantageous - to defeat a figure of a harder opponent, or just get rid of the figure's focused/hidden conditions.)

(False Orders lets Murne perform an attack with a hostile figure. And that is where the rules about performing attacks with other figures come in.)

Edited October 17, 2017 by a1bert

[Spidey NZ 787]

4 hours ago, a1bert said:

Emperor can choose a hostile figure to perform an attack. Palpatine doesn't get to control the figure though. Emperor is like Executive Order or Command or Order Hit. The controller of the hostile figure chooses who to attack, and can only attack hostile figures, which means your figures (or objects that can be attacked).

False Orders, Lure of the Dark Side, and Embrace Suffering perform an attack with a figure.

A third way is Verena performing an attack with attack dice and attack type of another figure.

 

that is not right is it?  thematically, i thought the emperor can make attacks through other figures by his influence of the darkside, and allow them to attack figures on their own team.

i didn't think his ability was to choose which hostile figure attacks your figures, that doesn't make sense, and is helping the other team get a free attack on you.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Spidey NZ

[Uninvited Guest 834]

54 minutes ago, Spidey NZ said:

i didn't think his ability was to choose which hostile figure attacks your figures,

Well, it's not. It's meant to select your own figures to attack theirs.  It's just written in such a way that hostile figures can be selected.

[Spidey NZ 787]

53 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Well, it's not. It's meant to select your own figures to attack theirs.  It's just written in such a way that hostile figures can be selected.

yeah, i thought hostile and your own.  you can choose any figure to make an attack with. so was the intention only to control your own figure? not manipulate the other players figure?

[Uninvited Guest 834]

6 minutes ago, Spidey NZ said:

yeah, i thought hostile and your own.  you can choose any figure to make an attack with. so was the intention only to control your own figure? not manipulate the other players figure?

Personally I think it's intended as is.  As a1bert mentioned, it could make sense in four player skirmish, or some extreme case like the only available target is a Hired Gun and you're looking to get Parting Shot off (I don't see that happening ever though, but who knows?).

Even if it's never or rarely used the option is available.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Uninvited Guest

[Armandhammer 431]

2 hours ago, Spidey NZ said:

that is not right is it?  thematically, i thought the emperor can make attacks through other figures by his influence of the darkside, and allow them to attack figures on their own team.

I agree with you. It would make more sense if the ability was similar to False orders.

And to be honest, I find it difficult to distinguish between the two. Although you can see the rationale behind what a1bert is saying.

Quote

Emperor: Once during your activation, you may choose another figure within 4 spaces. That figure interrupts to perform an attack.

Quote

False orders: Choose a hostile figure with a figure cost equal to or less than the threat level within 3 spaces. Perform an attack with that figure

a1bert stated some skirmish scenarios where it might be beneficial to give your opponent a free attack.

For the campaign?

Maybe you want the rebels to finish off the last figure of a group so you can redeploy the entire group to an optimal deployment point (with full health).

Maybe it's the last Rebel figure to activate and you want the figure to blow open the door, triggering an event and an optional deployment.

Maybe the Rebels are getting crushed and you wanna give them a morale boost  In this situation, the imperial player should laugh evilly and say: "everything is proceeding as I have foreseen" while the Rebel players look at you with puzzled expressions.

And I'm assuming if the emperor uses emperor, the chosen figure must attack. Right?  

Edited October 18, 2017 by Armandhammer

[Spidey NZ 787]

29 minutes ago, Armandhammer said:

I agree with you. It would make more sense if the ability was similar to False orders.

And to be honest, I find it difficult to distinguish between the two. Although you can see the rationale behind what a1bert is saying.

a1bert stated some skirmish scenarios where it might be beneficial to give your opponent a free attack.

For the campaign?

Maybe you want the rebels to finish off the last figure of a group so you can redeploy the entire group to an optimal deployment point (with full health).

Maybe it's the last Rebel figure to activate and you want the figure to blow open the door, triggering an event and an optional deployment.

Maybe the Rebels are getting crushed and you wanna give them a morale boost  In this situation, the imperial player should laugh evilly and say: "everything is proceeding as I have foreseen" while the Rebel players look at you with puzzled expressions.

And I'm assuming if the emperor uses emperor, the chosen figure must attack. Right?  

could also waste a heroes focused attack on a not very important figure....

[Majushi 1,127]

5 minutes ago, Spidey NZ said:

could also waste a heroes focused attack on a not very important figure....

Or make your opponent attack a door before they're ready to have it destroyed?

[Stompburger 685]

As a1bert said - it's probably done mostly to conserve space on the card. You might be surprised how many design decisions get made that way... 

Unless you're an MTG designer of course. Then you just reduce the font size 

[a1bert 4,115]

5 hours ago, Armandhammer said:

And I'm assuming if the emperor uses emperor, the chosen figure must attack. Right?

There is no "may". If there is at least one valid target for the attack, the attack can and must be performed.

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by a1bert

[aermet69 518]

So if there is no other target available, you could force a player to use a powerful attack on a Hired Gun, to get an attack off and kill a smaller figure nearby

[machfalcon 266]

15 hours ago, Spidey NZ said:

could also waste a heroes focused attack on a not very important figure....

Or maybe more importantly remove the Hidden condition.