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TIE interceptor 181st title

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Hi folks, with some good points from @Theorist Jeff
have a look at this and see what you think. 

It's not supposed to 'fix' anything other than the lower PS 181st pilots. Another step towards the dream of a balanced set of custom cards for a triple interceptor squad that does not include carnor jax, that's not OP but balanced. Just some fun ideas to play with. The rationale is that this card must meet the following criteria:

  • useful on any PS4-7 pilot, moreso than a PS8 or 9 pilot, so as not to unbalance fel and jax.
  • be thematic enough that it makes the lower PS pilots feel like crack aces
  • not provide an easy solution to bombs or auto damage as an easy out
  • not be undercosted, but still be a compelling alternative to RGP.
  • amplify the idea of interceptors as powerful glass cannons that reward gutsy flying


q2pGMCY.png

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I'd change it to "Once per turn, after an enemy ship executes a maneuver that results in it touching you, you may perform an attack against an enemy ship you are touching as if you were not touching."

The reason is that which ships are overlapped during movement is not clearly defined.  For instance, assume your 181st is touching an X-wing.  A Y-wing tries to 2-bank past both of you.  The Y-wing's template crosses the X-wing, lands on you.

Did the Y-wing overlap you?  Precedent (for, e.g., Anti-Pursuit Lasers) says no, but common sense (if the Y-wing didn't overlap you, then why didn't the Y-wing clear the X-wing?) says yes.  To avoid arguments and FAQing, just use touching, as already defined in the rules.

Also, I'd change the restriction to "2 or lower."  One, hey, if A-wing pilots can get EPTs at PS 3, surely Interceptor pilots can.  Two, an actual reason to fly Avengers.  (Remember Avengers?)

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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It's cheap, presumably, because most of the Interceptor aces are slightly overpriced, and you're about to dump more points into them with an EPT.

Personally, I like it, but I do agree it should be "ends it's maneuver in contact" rather than "overlapping". I'm all for Lt. Lorrir getting Wired, and Turr Phennir getting VI.

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20 minutes ago, player2422845 said:

at least add "you cannot attack again this round". It seems to cheap for me.

The EPT:s should be free. The ability is near impossble to trigger vs. lower PS pilots and interceptors are pretty easy to pick of with higher PS pilots. You will likely only use the ability once per game on average. I'd say the price is fair, all things considered.

Edited by Calibri Garamond

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okay, I've incorporated the improved wording, shown below. 
I've also included the second card I'm interested in, which is still... raw, for lack of a better word. Thematically the idea is that when flying together, interceptors draw fire, provide covering and suppressive fire. This means that if one of your squad mates is pointing at the target you are, the target will be 'busier' and so your damage rolls are a little stronger and your defensive rolls a bit better. 

Mechanistically, I've represented this with a blend of the ability of Agent Kallus and Lone wolf, but with a firing arc restriction. This would decrease the cost, however given that you are able to compound this ability with an EPT, that makes it much more potent. I *think* it should be 3, but the cost may actually be 4 in terms of worth, it's hard to judge the opportunity cost of "must have" a friendly ship with guns on target. I expect that after the initial pass, this will be low. My worry of course is just turning interceptors into invincible points fortresses, such as with un-nerfed palpatine. And giving defensive mods is a really fast way to do that, so I'm leery of this being too cheap. That said, the efficacy of the card starts to fall apart as you lose ships as well.

anyways, interested to hear feedback on both.

cL6KprD.png

Edited by citruscannon

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2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I still think you should permit it on PS 3.  See my first post for why.

sorry, meant to address this in the post. I'm 100% agreed with you for making avenger squadron pilots useful. Thematically it causes issues though, since avenger squadron didn't use blood stripes.  I know, I know, it's a silly reason but I get finicky about working within those limits (even putting 'blood stripes' as a title is a stretch) I suppose I could rename it "combat stripes"? Or to be honest, a second title that covers ps1 to ps5 interceptors might be the way to go even. 

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1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Enh.  Just consider it an Avenger who got transferred/promoted.

true, but wouldn't I run into the opposite problem whereby nobody would take saber squadron pilots? I'd be 100% for it if I could somehow make it such that the avenger pilot didn't pick up the EPT.

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1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Hmmm.  That's a good point.  You're probably right ... this title would simply be better of PS 3, even before saving the 1 point.

Oh, well.  I've simply never seen an Avenger on the mat.  Not even back when Interceptors were good.  I was hopin'.

I've got this one on the card at the moment, it might just work. EPT on a saber would probably be PTL to make for a much better, but more expensive blocker, but there would be sufficient difference that it may be workable.

"Once per turn, after an enemy ship executes a maneuver that causes it to overlap your ship, you may perform an attack against that ship as if you are not touching. You may only equip this card if your pilot skill value is “3” or higher. Add 1 EPT icon to your upgrade bar, to a maximum of 1, if your pilot skill value is “5” or higher."

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1 hour ago, citruscannon said:

okay, I've incorporated the improved wording, shown below. 
I've also included the second card I'm interested in, which is still... raw, for lack of a better word. Thematically the idea is that when flying together, interceptors draw fire, provide covering and suppressive fire. This means that if one of your squad mates is pointing at the target you are, the target will be 'busier' and so your damage rolls are a little stronger and your defensive rolls a bit better. 

Mechanistically, I've represented this with a blend of the ability of Agent Kallus and Lone wolf, but with a firing arc restriction. This would decrease the cost, however given that you are able to compound this ability with an EPT, that makes it much more potent. I *think* it should be 3, but the cost may actually be 4 in terms of worth, it's hard to judge the opportunity cost of "must have" a friendly ship with guns on target. I expect that after the initial pass, this will be low. My worry of course is just turning interceptors into invincible points fortresses, such as with un-nerfed palpatine. And giving defensive mods is a really fast way to do that, so I'm leery of this being too cheap. That said, the efficacy of the card starts to fall apart as you lose ships as well.

anyways, interested to hear feedback on both.

cL6KprD.png

I love how you use beautiful art on your cards. Keep up your good work!

I have some feedback on card wording.

What do you mean by "Add one EPT icon to your upgrade bar, to a maximum of one."? I think that you are saying you don't want pilots who already have the EPT icon to get another one. Wouldn't it be better to say "Your upgrade bar gains the EPT upgrade icon if it does not have one already."? I am saying this because I am referencing the wording on A-wing Test Pilot.

Also, "Once per turn," should say "Once per round," to match the dozens of others of once per round upgrades like Push The Limit

I look forward to seeing more cards from you!

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Just now, AwesomeJedi said:

I love how you use beautiful art on your cards. Keep up your good work!

I have some feedback on card wording.

What do you mean by "Add one EPT icon to your upgrade bar, to a maximum of one."? I think that you are saying you don't want pilots who already have the EPT icon to get another one. Wouldn't it be better to say "Your upgrade bar gains the EPT upgrade icon if it does not have one already."? I am saying this because I am referencing the wording on A-wing Test Pilot.

Also, "Once per turn," should say "Once per round," to match the dozens of others of once per round upgrades like Push The Limit

I look forward to seeing more cards from you!

nice catches, thanks!!!

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I really like them!

I agree that the blood stripes should fit on Avenger Squadron Pilots for game balance purposes. I also think that to bring balance to the Force, they should allow more than one different EPT, like A-Wing Test Pilot (although I like the idea of buffing Fel’s Wrath, Kir Kanos, and Lieutenant Lorrir!). 

I think Strategic Planning is overpriced, comparing it to Agent Kallus. Granted, Kallus takes up a crew slot, but it’s highly restricted (need another ship to have them in arc). Plus, since you’re making it TIE Interceptor only, why not make it a little more powerful than Kallus? 

Edited by Kieransi

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8 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I really like them!

I agree that the blood stripes should fit on Avenger Squadron Pilots for game balance purposes. I also think that to bring balance to the Force, they should allow more than one different EPT, like A-Wing Test Pilot (although I like the idea of buffing Fel’s Wrath, Kir Kanos, and Lieutenant Lorrir!). 

I think Strategic Planning is overpriced, comparing it to Agent Kallus. Granted, Kallus takes up a crew slot, but it’s highly restricted (need another ship to have them in arc). Plus, since you’re making it TIE Interceptor only, why not make it a little more powerful than Kallus? 

yea, 
I've adjusted these now, as follows:
vlXmuG5.jpg

regarding strategic discipline, the problem with setting the cost to be the same as Kallus is a few things: a) it's not unique, and can be used to really squelch the consistent effectiveness of a single ship. b) kallus can't be taken on any ship that has native three dice and can ptl focus evade. that extra reroll has high possibility of being very very strong at keeping interceptors alive, which makes it more valuable. c) costed lower and you can start sneaking extra modifications on in 4 ship squads. Just some thoughts

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1 minute ago, citruscannon said:

yea, 
I've adjusted these now, as follows:
vlXmuG5.jpg

regarding strategic discipline, the problem with setting the cost to be the same as Kallus is a few things: a) it's not unique, and can be used to really squelch the consistent effectiveness of a single ship. b) kallus can't be taken on any ship that has native three dice and can ptl focus evade. that extra reroll has high possibility of being very very strong at keeping interceptors alive, which makes it more valuable. c) costed lower and you can start sneaking extra modifications on in 4 ship squads. Just some thoughts

A reroll might not be as huge of a boost as you think... keep in mind Lone Wolf only costs 2, is arguably easier to set up and more reliable, and isn’t the most popular EPT. Compare it to Autothrusters for added survivability as well... just my two cents.

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19 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I really like them!

I agree that the blood stripes should fit on Avenger Squadron Pilots for game balance purposes.

Plus, since you’re making it TIE Interceptor only, why not make it a little more powerful than Kallus?

I don't think the Avenger Squadron Pilots needs Bloodstripes. It just is not thematic.

Looking at Strategic Discipline, I was thinking that this mechanic with also be very fun and thematic as a TIE Fighter buff too.

Edited by AwesomeJedi

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Arvel and kallus abilities on interceptor pilots? I can get behind this. I feel with all the tlt and bombs and even white k turns we've lost a little skill in "the art of the joust". And anything that gets interceptors back on the table competitively would be nice, minus bombing interceptors. ( also there's a guy at my flgs who loves squints and runs them all the time. He'd love something like this.)

this makes me wonder if ffg is purposefully holding off on a campaign for x wing standard until rebels is finished. You could throw these in with Vult Skerris or a sky strike graduate generic.

Edited by FlyingAnchors

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30 minutes ago, AwesomeJedi said:

I don't think the Avenger Squadron Pilots needs Bloodstripes. It just is not thematic.

That’s why I said “for game balance purposes.” I agree that it’s not thematic, but it’s needed to keep them on par with other cheap EPT carriers like Scurrgs and Jumpmasters.

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1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

That’s why I said “for game balance purposes.” I agree that it’s not thematic, but it’s needed to keep them on par with other cheap EPT carriers like Scurrgs and Jumpmasters.

Agreed. I don't think soontir ever flew the royal guard wing let interceptor, but he still has access to the title. Or boba and the andrasta, etc.

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4 hours ago, Kieransi said:

That’s why I said “for game balance purposes.” I agree that it’s not thematic, but it’s needed to keep them on par with other cheap EPT carriers like Scurrgs and Jumpmasters.

 

2 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Agreed. I don't think soontir ever flew the royal guard wing let interceptor, but he still has access to the title. Or boba and the andrasta, etc.

yep, agreed to both of these. I think the above fix, although it adds a line, may do the trick. Ps3 pilots won't pick up the EPT, so they aren't "true" 181st pilots, just trainees or something, but the rest enjoy the benefits of the EPT. I think this is a happy compromise and I can see viable reasons for taking the ps3 for the title and cost, but also for the slightly better saber that can take PTL and be a little more versatile. 

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