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Shizrak

Who else is quitting? Speak Up!

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I feel like people that are acting like they won't be able to play if they don't have the packs haven't played the game. This game is just as much about how you play as it is the deck you build. Have you seen the cards they've spoiled so far?  Almost none are objectively better than the cards in the core.

The packs are going to offer variety and diversity, they aren't loot crates!

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Had a few great games today, so I wont be quitting anytime soon. But yes, it ll hurt new players, and thus kill the game within a year or so easily. But thats what happened to the last LCGs for some reason too, so I think the TCG model is just better.

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1 minute ago, Kaiju said:

Had a few great games today, so I wont be quitting anytime soon. But yes, it ll hurt new players, and thus kill the game within a year or so easily. But thats what happened to the last LCGs for some reason too, so I think the TCG model is just better.

I can't wait to come back to this post in a years time when you are so very wrong.

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3 minutes ago, OsramTaleka said:

I can't wait to come back to this post in a years time when you are so very wrong.

Sure, I d be happy to be proven wrong. Unfortunately, the last few games (Warhammer Quest, Star Wars LCG, Conquest) I was right. Not that I could have guessed ahead of time WHY exactly it didnt work out (except for Star Wars, which was kinda obvious), but the playerbase for these games is limited, there are several systems further dividing the shrinking playerbase (because I can tell you, the younger generation doesnt have NEARLY as many gamers as the current late-20s to late-30s have), and then FFG goes and on top of drastically increasing prices puts a massive investment up front into play - I dont see how this can be anything but horribly bad.

Again, not everyone will quit, and again, new people will trickle in. But I have run a gamestore a few years back for several years, right around the time LCGs were invented, and I can guarantee you, after about 2 cycles (Warhammer Invasion back then, and later the LotR) people dont pick it up, you are just selling to those that have been there from the beginning.

Netrunner, they are doing it smart there, building a fresh entry point. I hope FFG sees the numbers after this stunt, and reconsiders for L5R. Its a great game.

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1 hour ago, GMmL said:

I have 3 cores arriving tomorrow. If I had known about this pack rollout method I would not have pre-ordered. Not quite sure what I'm going to do just yet, but my initial reaction is not positive. I'm going to wait until my knee-jerk emotions have passed and then figure out what to do.  Likely, it will be to try to sell 3 cores.

edit- To clarify it's the timing moreso than the method. $200+ right before the holidays to hop in and be competitive? No, thank you.

That is why they waited until after the Core release to drop the 6 packs 6 weeks BS.
To get folks to buy the Cores.

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57 minutes ago, RenoShinra said:

I'm excited for this new launch cycle.  

I can see why some people are upset, but FFG isn't holding a gun to your head to buy the new dynasty pack.  You don't know the power level of the cards to know if they are strong enough to cause a imbalance yet.  Since you know exactly what you're getting, you can still pick and choose what pack to get.  More cards just gives you more deck building options, hence why I'm a bit pleased with this announcement.  

I played all the other LCG's.  Not every pack had stuff I wanted, I never saw or felt pressured to buy the new stuff.  

No but they did plan this and kept it under wraps until they had the money, so more than a bit rude.

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This does less for the upcoming Store Championship season than people think.  It's a lot of money at once, but not much to worry about for someone wishing to compete. A player can still be competitive with 2x cores and a few packs. It does suck that the spoilers aren't all up for those wanting to know the pool immediately for deckbuilding.   Let's be honest.. players are going to gripe about the top 2 decks once tournament season starts whether there's a single pack or six available. Yes. This will happen.  Deck building will be about as creative with a single pack as it is with six right now. Players will net deck winning lists and there won't be a huge amount of diversity....but there may be more considering L5R's faction loyalty. It may actually help people get over the top 2 deck problem.  Regardless, you can be competitive in this game for about $100, which is pretty decent for a new game.

The biggest tragedy is that for the same price point, you can get 3 cores and 3 deluxes for a game entering its prime.. Thrones 2nd ed.

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18 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I think that if people are going to come in here and complain about having to quit and sell off their core sets they should post a picture of themselves with their proof of purchase(s).

All this speculation about it hurting the growth of the playerbase is just ridiculous.  If you really love the game and want to play, like you say you do, then why aren't you looking at how to make this a positive for the playgroup you are trying to grow?  It seems to me you already had one hand on the rip-cord and were looking for an opportunity to jump.

Nobody knows how this will impact the growth of the game............ever.  What's done is done.  The decision is now only about if you like the game or not.  If you don't, then quit.  If you do, then be an ambassador for the game...............instead of whatever this post was supposed to be.

The FAKE news guy is here.
 

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3 minutes ago, Larac said:

No but they did plan this and kept it under wraps until they had the money, so more than a bit rude.

...I really don't understand this. I truly don't. You're acting like some how those cores you bought are now worthless.

They didn't take your money and then say "Ha Ha, what you paid for isn't what you're getting". You're getting what you paid for. And as far as new packs go, we knew they were coming, starting in November no less. Now it's just, oh, well they're all coming out end of year.

I don't get this BS you're spouting, but ok. you bought into a card game with evolving cards, nothing about this is really new information.

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12 minutes ago, Kaiju said:

Sure, I d be happy to be proven wrong. Unfortunately, the last few games (Warhammer Quest, Star Wars LCG, Conquest) I was right. 

I am pretty sure two of those three stopped due to GW terminating their contract for other reasons.  Arkham and AGoT are still going strong, which are recent LCGs.

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1 hour ago, RenoShinra said:

I'm excited for this new launch cycle.  

I can see why some people are upset, but FFG isn't holding a gun to your head to buy the new dynasty pack.  You don't know the power level of the cards to know if they are strong enough to cause a imbalance yet.  Since you know exactly what you're getting, you can still pick and choose what pack to get.  More cards just gives you more deck building options, hence why I'm a bit pleased with this announcement.  

I played all the other LCG's.  Not every pack had stuff I wanted, I never saw or felt pressured to buy the new stuff.  

The problem, though, is that the game developers deceived us. They originally told us that packs would be rolling out one per month. Now that our core sets have been preordered and delivered and we're somewhat committed to the game now, they spring this on us? Instead of $15 a month now we have to pay $60 one month and $30 the next (to say nothing of shipping and handling)? Not all of us have excessive amounts of money to drop on these games. One of the selling points of the LCG model is that it's cheaper than the CCG model, but that's merely an illusion. It didn't cost me nearly this amount of money to start playing L5R the CCG, nor did it cost me nearly this amount of money to have a competitive deck.

Edited by Isawa Tsuke
typo

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8 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

...I really don't understand this. I truly don't. You're acting like some how those cores you bought are now worthless.

They didn't take your money and then say "Ha Ha, what you paid for isn't what you're getting". You're getting what you paid for. And as far as new packs go, we knew they were coming, starting in November no less. Now it's just, oh, well they're all coming out end of year.

I don't get this BS you're spouting, but ok. you bought into a card game with evolving cards, nothing about this is really new information.

I think he knows he has been naughty, so Commercialism Clause won't leave him with any gifts. :D

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1 minute ago, Isawa Tsuke said:

The problem, though, is that the game developers deceived us. They originally told us that packs would be rolling out one per month. Now that our packs have been preordered and delivered and we're somewhat committed to the game now, they spring this on us? Instead of $15 a month now we have to pay $60 one month and $30 the next? Not all of us have excessive amounts of money to drop on these games. One of the selling points of the LCG model is that it's cheaper than the CCG model, but that's merely an illusion. It didn't cost me nearly this amount of money to start playing L5R the CCG, nor did it cost me nearly this amount of money to have a competitive deck.

Well, first off, the game developers never originally told us that they'd be rolling out once per month.

Then of course, you don't HAVE TO pay anything past this point to play they game. these are not requirements to play the game.

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Surprisingly I think this is good news to some of the people I know - the people who want to play, and don't mind buying all of the expansions, but just have an issue with buying 3x cores.  This will make 1 core v 3 core much less evident from release! because the other cards will help fill out decks easier.  Ironically this helps the casuals and less-financially-involved players as they have a larger pool to pick from to selectively purchase the most valuable cards without buying everything each month as they come out.

It might also help players co-op to buy different packs and trade the clan cards they each want, since there are 6 different options to choose between.

What FFG needs to do is start spoiling these cards asap so we can plan accordingly.

Edited by shosuko

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1 minute ago, Caldias said:

I am pretty sure two of those three stopped due to GW terminating their contract for other reasons.  Arkham and AGoT are still going strong, which are recent LCGs.

From a player and customer perspective, this doesnt really matter though, does it? You bought games that are inherently promising a lifespan with development (hence living card games), and you end up with a dead game, stale meta and, realistically, no support.

Let me sketch out my problem with this situation, in light of recent events, purely from a player/customer perspective. I live in vienna, where there are 2 stores that stock FFG reliably upon or near its european release. I buy these games to play. Now, within less than a year, prices jumped up, RuneWars released and before the much-expected Latari faction even got available in stores, the buzz was killed by the SW:Legion announcement, leaving to a large part of the "wait and see" crowd to abandon it, and now L5R is available less than a full week (and at a high price, too. Almost 40 euros each core box thanks to Asmodee/FFG price gouging) and we have this announcement. 

Also, there is zero chance this rollout will actually mean we get 6 packs in 6 weeks. We will likely get 3 or 4 at once, a few weeks late, and at a high price.

And each of these events, no matter how small or large, leaves a few people annoyed and disappointed. Disappointed players move on, thats how it goes. It happened before, it will happen again.

Maybe in the USA, where FFG is better at handling releases, and the timing for announcements is smarter (Elves were available before Legion was announced etc.) things might go a little smoother, but the EU is certainly the second-largest gaming market, and right now they are just asking to be dismissed.

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*sigh*  Attention-posting, I see. It's like unsubscribing to a Facebook page or something similar, and post all about it on said page. 

 

With that said, I think this is a good move. The sooner we get more cards into the card-pool to make all factions viable (I am looking at you, Unicorn!), the sooner the environment will be more supportive of all the factions and creating a more diverse tournament scene. 

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15 minutes ago, Kaiju said:

From a player and customer perspective, this doesnt really matter though, does it? You bought games that are inherently promising a lifespan with development (hence living card games), and you end up with a dead game, stale meta and, realistically, no support.

Let me sketch out my problem with this situation, in light of recent events, purely from a player/customer perspective. I live in vienna, where there are 2 stores that stock FFG reliably upon or near its european release. I buy these games to play. Now, within less than a year, prices jumped up, RuneWars released and before the much-expected Latari faction even got available in stores, the buzz was killed by the SW:Legion announcement, leaving to a large part of the "wait and see" crowd to abandon it, and now L5R is available less than a full week (and at a high price, too. Almost 40 euros each core box thanks to Asmodee/FFG price gouging) and we have this announcement. 

Also, there is zero chance this rollout will actually mean we get 6 packs in 6 weeks. We will likely get 3 or 4 at once, a few weeks late, and at a high price.

And each of these events, no matter how small or large, leaves a few people annoyed and disappointed. Disappointed players move on, thats how it goes. It happened before, it will happen again.

Maybe in the USA, where FFG is better at handling releases, and the timing for announcements is smarter (Elves were available before Legion was announced etc.) things might go a little smoother, but the EU is certainly the second-largest gaming market, and right now they are just asking to be dismissed.

I can tell you the factors that lead to Conquest's demise in my area...............prior to losing the GW license.

The playgroups in my area were mostly comprised of miniatures players who were not as skilled and already investing a lot of money in their other hobby.

Experienced card players that were bored with other games or couldn't hack it migrated over and cleaned up all the local swag and were somewhat douchey.

Some factions did not have great cards and miniatures players are just as fanatical about their factions as L5R players are about their clans.

Slow release schedules prevented some factions from getting good, or even seeing print (Tyranid, Necron) until it was too late

Videos of the player who won a nationals event while visibly cheating turned some people off.

 

To be honest, I'm going to have a hard time keeping up with the initial dynasty cycle, but, I'd much rather see this game get past the core only environment as quickly as possible, so I'm willing to play at a disadvantage to those who can afford to buy the cards.  Luckily I have what I feel is the beginning of a good group to support me and I'm sure they would be willing to let me borrow cards to fill out decks for tournament play.

edit -

........and now I'm wondering why I quoted your post for this response, what the heck was I looking at.  lol 

sorry for the confusion.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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37 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Good of you to announce yourself to us. 

You’re not really helping things by being a pedantic jerk in every post. You’re fine with it. Thats ******* great. But not everyone is nor will be. And that’s fine too. You can allow others to disagree and not belittle them for it. I get that is a foreign concept for many but it is possible. Your attitude will do more to hurt the game than anything else. 

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If they did not release all the packs this quickly, what would happen in the environment is that one clan would be significantly stronger than another clan for blocks of a month at a time, or month+ adapt to new cards time. 

If a tournament fell during the block that clan is the strongest, say, koteis, there will be a ton of "cry foul".  If one clan got their boost first, they will probably be considered 'broken' for the whole kotei season, because it takes  a  long time for people to get an idea out of their head once it has been embedded, and a long time to reassess based on the new information. One month is not long enough.

My guess is they originally planned to release once per month, but with the way the community responded, they think they need to keep all the clans as balanced as possible as constantly as possible. That means releasing the packs close together.

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Warhammer Invasion lasted quite a long time, even though interest in tournament level play never seemed to develop. Sales were good in europe at least, it was often difficult to get older stock.

Look guys, I love the L5R Brand. I am not selling my core sets. I think this is a good game. But FFGs track record with LCGs is rather bad. For the few that got anywhere, several have bit the dust, for a variety of reasons MOSTLY on FFGs side. And that was without making obviously unpopular moves like this one. Its hard enough to recover the playerbase of a TCG to go to the LCG format (TCG having, due to its nature, a naturally stronger draw because of offering a "collecting" experience as well), and I just wished they would not have made this rather obviously bad decision. 

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