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Luner_Eclipse

Should I buy the M3-A interceptor?

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I've been wondering if the M3-A is worth buying? I have an opportunity to buy it and I am wondering if it would fit into any list with the scum ships I have. (upgrade cards are not a problem)

Most wanted

starviper

Shadow castor

Protectorate

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Consider the reason for the purchase:

  1. The basic Scyk pack isn't likely to fit into any 'competitive' lists on its own. It's not a bad ship, but it isn't up to the modern standards. The C-ROC gives it some stronger pilots and options.
  2. That said, it's a fun little ship and it looks truly unique on the mat. It's either a cheap TIE Fighter for scum, or you can transform it into a glass cannon by equipping a cannon to it. I've flown them for fun a few times and haven't been disappointed.

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38 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

That said, it's a fun little ship and it looks truly unique on the mat.

It does have fun options, but not unique. The Protectorate is almost exacltly the same shape, just in reverse.

That being said, I’ll answer the original question. Should you buy an M3-A? NO.

Boycott Scum, and EU nonsense, but mostly Scum EU nonsense. Hit FFG’s bottom line until they give some love the iconic ships most fans care about.

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The Scyk is probably one of my favorite ships, all the way back from my SW:G days. I've used a list consisting of 4 of them to win 2 tournaments, and a list that has 2 Scyks & 2 HWKs to win 4 others.

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They're great little ships, and the heavy title FAQ makes them infinitely more playable for the points invested.  

Without the C-roc you'd have Serissu, the defensive howlrunner.  

The "stock" fighter would be a Tansari Pt Vet with title and a mangler cannon.  Salt and pepper to taste.  

They really shine with attani mindlink, making for a powerful miniswarm (THE reason the proposed nerf to mindlink of a 2 ship limit is a disappointing idea, they're a joy to fly).  

Another consideration: For your upgrade collection, you'll add a cannon potpourri and another stealth device. Are there any other cards your lists are jonesing for that might make another ship a better purchase? Perhaps.  

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I love mine, but IMHO they really need some buddies to shine, so just one might not really be a great investment. As others has mentioned, they are not up to tournament standards so if you want them it should be for the casual/fun squads. That said, they're not totally worthless either, they do great in certain situations.

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Without the C-ROC, you don't have as many options.  Even with it, the syck is not a very meta ship.  With that said, it's fun to fly.  I love Sunny bounder's ability.  It's caused more than a few laughs at the table.  Including me rolling 3 blanks and adding a forth just because I could.  The light syck dies very quickly at times.

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22 hours ago, jmswood said:

 

It does have fun options, but not unique. The Protectorate is almost exacltly the same shape, just in reverse.

That being said, I’ll answer the original question. Should you buy an M3-A? NO.

Boycott Scum, and EU nonsense, but mostly Scum EU nonsense. Hit FFG’s bottom line until they give some love the iconic ships most fans care about.

I'll disagree.  It serves as the scum version of a tie fighter.  does it always fit in your build?  NO. but can it be used? Absolutely.  with C ROC you have 12 point blockers.  Flexibility to bring cannons, and more.  Is it a game changer?  NO.  But it has an absolute place in scum and villainy collections.  I'd put it as a mid to late level acquirement for scum collections.

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On 11/10/2017 at 9:16 PM, jmswood said:

 

It does have fun options, but not unique. The Protectorate is almost exacltly the same shape, just in reverse.

That being said, I’ll answer the original question. Should you buy an M3-A? NO.

Boycott Scum, and EU nonsense, but mostly Scum EU nonsense. Hit FFG’s bottom line until they give some love the iconic ships most fans care about.

Ehi! Scum side is why I like StarWars universe! (:

 

Buy the M3A, is pretty unique and can even be competitive.

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3 hours ago, Cerve said:

Ehi! Scum side is why I like StarWars universe! (:

Nothing wrong with that. Some of my favorite Star Wars characters are Scum, and I would love to see more of them in film and TV. I would love to see more of the new canon Scum in the game...

...but (you knew there would be one)...

FFG plays favorites with Scum. I’m only boycotting one faction in the hope it changes, even though there are parts of the faction I enjoy playing with. I know other people who quit the game entirely because of Scum cheese. I’m positive that isn’t the consequence FFG wants, but to some fans it is the consequence they deserve. 

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Mmm nah they just goes wrong with the JM5K. Take off it and Scum will be fine.

The problem is that they wont writing an aggressive errata on the card of the JM5K. They tried on upgrades but, after 3 faqs, the ship still rocks.

 

They made it too well (:

Edited by Cerve

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1 hour ago, Cerve said:

Mmm nah they just goes wrong with the JM5K. Take off it and Scum will be fine.

The Jumpmaster is so bad it distracts from the other offenders. 

Protectorate -  The closest equivalent is the TIE Interceptor. At face value the Protectorate costs 1-2 points more, but what does it get for those points? More hull, a Target Lock and two more maneuvers on its dial. Just to get the extra hull and Target Lock option, an Interceptor has to be at least PS6, take the RG title and spend 5 points on modifications. That makes the Interceptor cost 3-4 points more than a Protectorate, points the Protectorate is still free to spend on Autothrusters and the Concord Dawn Title to make a better ship for the same points or less.

Kihraxz with Vaksai - Kihraxz struggled, everyone knows it, I’m not denying it. Vaksai was a pendular swing, one that can only be explained by FFG favortism for the Scum faction.

Lancer - The board meeting went something like this: “Hey chaps, let’s make a ship that can fly faster than any other ship, clear stress in a high speed turn and redirect its guns in the same point range as the Firespray.” Response from the rest of the design team: “Only if it’s a Scum ship.”

Kimogila is just around the corner with more of the same power-creep-on-a-budget that’s been erasing iconic ships from the game.

Tying it all back to the original purpose of this thread: should any plaer buy the Scyk? I still say no, and will continue to say for the foreseeable future. However, I can be pragmatic in this discussion. Fun, balanced ships like the M3-A are collateral damage in the ongoing controversy over what many people see as a skewed design strategy in X-wing (assuming the dev team has a strategy beyond boosting sales to the competitive player base.) People like me won’t buy it or play with the Scyk because of what FFG messed up with the rest of the faction. Other people don’t buy it or play with it because it isn’t easy mode, auto-win OP. A lot of players are caught in the middle, rolling their eyes at posts like mine. 

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4 hours ago, jmswood said:

The Jumpmaster is so bad it distracts from the other offenders. 

Protectorate -  The closest equivalent is the TIE Interceptor. At face value the Protectorate costs 1-2 points more, but what does it get for those points? More hull, a Target Lock and two more maneuvers on its dial. Just to get the extra hull and Target Lock option, an Interceptor has to be at least PS6, take the RG title and spend 5 points on modifications. That makes the Interceptor cost 3-4 points more than a Protectorate, points the Protectorate is still free to spend on Autothrusters and the Concord Dawn Title to make a better ship for the same points or less.

Kihraxz with Vaksai - Kihraxz struggled, everyone knows it, I’m not denying it. Vaksai was a pendular swing, one that can only be explained by FFG favortism for the Scum faction.

Lancer - The board meeting went something like this: “Hey chaps, let’s make a ship that can fly faster than any other ship, clear stress in a high speed turn and redirect its guns in the same point range as the Firespray.” Response from the rest of the design team: “Only if it’s a Scum ship.”

Kimogila is just around the corner with more of the same power-creep-on-a-budget that’s been erasing iconic ships from the game.

Tying it all back to the original purpose of this thread: should any plaer buy the Scyk? I still say no, and will continue to say for the foreseeable future. However, I can be pragmatic in this discussion. Fun, balanced ships like the M3-A are collateral damage in the ongoing controversy over what many people see as a skewed design strategy in X-wing (assuming the dev team has a strategy beyond boosting sales to the competitive player base.) People like me won’t buy it or play with the Scyk because of what FFG messed up with the rest of the faction. Other people don’t buy it or play with it because it isn’t easy mode, auto-win OP. A lot of players are caught in the middle, rolling their eyes at posts like mine. 

I totally disagree with all the points. Interceptor and Protectorate are two pretty different ships with a different playstile (Interceptor is a totally arc dodger, where the Protectorate is an agile jouster. That's why the first has the evade action, and the second that title). And of course an arc dodger must be a little pricer than a jouster.

The Lancer pays his cost with low PS, and it's just a good ship. Nothing broken at all here. The problem there is the Firespray, not all the other large ships. And even the Scum one sucks. 

Kihraxz. Wow, you really forgot the Defender Titles uh?..way way better than the Vaksai, so good that the X7 needed a nerf. This is no love for a faction, just a love for doa ships.

Kimogila- really nothing broken at all here too...

 

No there's no more love for Scum than other factions. JM5K was the only mistake from the FFG to the scum faction but, hey, Fel was a mistake for 3-4 Waves so it's fine. Kylo RAC is actually embarassing, a meta changer, and probably the best combination in the game right now.

Edited by Cerve

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1 hour ago, Cerve said:

I totally disagree with all the points. Interceptor and Protectorate are two pretty different ships with a different playstile (Interceptor is a totally arc dodger, where the Protectorate is an agile jouster. That's why the first has the evade action, and the second that title). And of course an arc dodger must be a little pricer than a jouster.

Your appraisal of the Protectorate is basically the FFG sales pitch. They called it a jouster too, but anyone can see by the dial and action bar that it can arc dodge. An Evade action does not an arc dodger make. So you haven’t addressed the points disparity between the two ships. Target Lock is way more valuable than Evade, and the Concord Dawn Protector title helps mitigate damage passively, which is more efficient than an evade action. Of course the Protectorate can joust too, way better than the Interceptor can dream of. Thanks for adding a point to my argument.

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

The Lancer pays his cost with low PS, and it's just a good ship. Nothing broken at all here. The problem there is the Firespray, not all the other large ships. And even the Scum one sucks.

I never said the Lancer was broken. i said it’s better than the Firespray (closest equivalent in any faction) and falls in the same point range. It doesn’t pay for its superiority in pilot skill. Ketsu costs the same as Kath, and Ketsu has a better ship. Emon Azzameen is 1 point less than Ventress, but Ventress has a more versatile ability tied to a superior platform.

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

Kihraxz. Wow, you really forgot the Defender Titles uh?..way way better than the Vaksai, so good that the X7 needed a nerf. This is no love for a faction, just a love for doa ships.

Did you really compare the Kihraxz to the Defender? Apples and oranges. Your x7 argument is a red herring. I admitted Kirhaxz needed help, but Vaksai is too good. The equivalent to the Kihraxz is the X-wing. That’s a can of worms that has enough threads unto itself, and proof enough that FFG loves Scum more than Rebels.

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

Kimogila- really nothing broken at all here too...

Finally the Kimogila. Again, I did not use the word broken, you did. The Kimogila’s PS8 is a ‘roid rage Wes Jansen. Torani Kulda has 2x the hit points, a better version of Jansen’s ability, and a 1 point title that hands out stress with no trade-off. With that title, Torani still cost 1 less point than Wes Janson. Jansens has to spend another 2 points on Stressbot to get the same utility, and that utility further costs him stress. These are all simple facts proving power creep on a budget. It isn’t game breaking, it is better for less. The only thing Wes Jansen has over Torani Kulda that we know so far is agility. An extra 5 HP is way better than 1 more green die. Kimogila’s dial should be worse than an X-wing, but I have my doubts.

1 hour ago, Cerve said:

No there's no more love for Scum than other factions. JM5K was the only mistake from the FFG to the scum faction but, hey, Fel was a mistake for 3-4 Waves so it's fine.

 

Your Soontir Fel jab is a weak, rationalized attempt to excuse the Jumpmaster. Even at his peak, Soontir was a high risk investment. A Jumpmaster is never a risky option, ever. The comparison falls on its face.

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5 hours ago, jmswood said:

Your appraisal of the Protectorate is basically the FFG sales pitch. They called it a jouster too, but anyone can see by the dial and action bar that it can arc dodge. An Evade action does not an arc dodger make. So you haven’t addressed the points disparity between the two ships. Target Lock is way more valuable than Evade, and the Concord Dawn Protector title helps mitigate damage passively, which is more efficient than an evade action. Of course the Protectorate can joust too, way better than the Interceptor can dream of. Thanks for adding a point to my argument.

I never said the Lancer was broken. i said it’s better than the Firespray (closest equivalent in any faction) and falls in the same point range. It doesn’t pay for its superiority in pilot skill. Ketsu costs the same as Kath, and Ketsu has a better ship. Emon Azzameen is 1 point less than Ventress, but Ventress has a more versatile ability tied to a superior platform.

Did you really compare the Kihraxz to the Defender? Apples and oranges. Your x7 argument is a red herring. I admitted Kirhaxz needed help, but Vaksai is too good. The equivalent to the Kihraxz is the X-wing. That’s a can of worms that has enough threads unto itself, and proof enough that FFG loves Scum more than Rebels.

Finally the Kimogila. Again, I did not use the word broken, you did. The Kimogila’s PS8 is a ‘roid rage Wes Jansen. Torani Kulda has 2x the hit points, a better version of Jansen’s ability, and a 1 point title that hands out stress with no trade-off. With that title, Torani still cost 1 less point than Wes Janson. Jansens has to spend another 2 points on Stressbot to get the same utility, and that utility further costs him stress. These are all simple facts proving power creep on a budget. It isn’t game breaking, it is better for less. The only thing Wes Jansen has over Torani Kulda that we know so far is agility. An extra 5 HP is way better than 1 more green die. Kimogila’s dial should be worse than an X-wing, but I have my doubts.

Your Soontir Fel jab is a weak, rationalized attempt to excuse the Jumpmaster. Even at his peak, Soontir was a high risk investment. A Jumpmaster is never a risky option, ever. The comparison falls on its face.

We have different thoughts.

Evade is way better than a Target Lock, expecially for a 3-4 hull ship. The Protectorate is not a great arc dodger as the Interceptor for that. Hitting and Int with the TLT is nearly impossible, where a Protectorate just crush down. And you said it: the title. Yes, but the title needs you to joust...so what are we talking about?

 

Saying the Lancer is better of the Firespray is litterally nonsense. The Firespray was overcosted since the beginning, the problem is it, not the Lancer. And no, no scum love here because we have the Spray too...and it's even worse than the Imperial one. 

Yes I talk about the X7 because was a title for an old doa ship EXACTELY as the Kihraxz is. And because we are talking about scum love from FFG, well, they had much more love in the Imperian Veterans pack than the Guns for Hire, for sure.

 

Why you pair Kimo with Wes? Why you're still pairing ships? Is not the way this game goes. You can't take Interceptor/Protectorate, Kihraxzes/X-Wing, Lancer/Firespray that's totally a nonsense! FFG write ships considerating the entire pack of upgrades and synergies that their FACTION has. That's why you will never see (for example) red turns in a droid-scum ship. Because scum has Unhiged Astromech, were other factions none. And that's why FFG will never write an Interceptor scum. Because can you immagine evade actions+that dial+MINDLINK? 

Stop makes this pairs, it's useless and far from helping. Ships are counted for synergies in their factions, not faction/faction.

 

JM5K was the real only show of love by FFG to scum.

Edited by Cerve

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So far nobody has put forth any argument to counter Jmswood claim, that FFG favorits scum. However rebels are not far behind and win just as many tournements due to a few really good ships like Biggs and Miranda. So the real problem between factions is that the imperial faction is so far behind the two others.
But the problem Jmswood first adressed was, that the iconic ships of starwars need some love. I also thinks it is problematic, that we do not see iconic ships like the original TIE fighter, X-wing, B-wing, TIE interceptor, Han Solos Millenium Falcon, Lukes X-wing...  on the gaming tables anymore. I do know many X-wing players, that would not love to see more of these ships, but when FFG have made it so, that these iconic ships lose nearly any game. Then its not fun to play them, so if FFG is reading these conversations please give some love to the iconic ships. We love X-wing and need FFG to fix the iconic ships.
I would like a box with titles for  original TIE fighter, X-wing, B-wing and TIE interceptor and new Han Solo and Luke pilotcards with new abilities.

 

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@Cerve I compare and contrast products based on measurable factors. It isn’t nonsense; two ships with similar traits should have similar point costs.

I’ll break it down in a more basic example. An Academy Pilot and a Cartel Spacer with Light Scyk cost the same points (12.) The stat lines are slightly different, but close enough: Low PS, 2 Primary Weapon, 3 Agility and 3 total hit points. Someone might make an argument that the TIE’s 3 hull is better than a Light Scyk’s 2 hull, 1 shield. Assuming that much is actually in the TIE’s favor; it doesn’t offset the Light Scyk’s advantages over the TIE Fighter. Light Scyk has 1 more action and a massively better dial. Once again, Scum gets more performance per point.

I think you want to believe the Jumpmaster is just a one-time fluke, and that I’m just a ranting tin hat conspiracy theorist. Maybe I am a ranting tin hatter, but even if I’m imagining FFG’s motives, the pattern is real. 

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2 hours ago, Everyday Ace said:

 

 

2 hours ago, jmswood said:

@Cerve I compare and contrast products based on measurable factors. It isn’t nonsense; two ships with similar traits should have similar point costs.

 

Yes it is! They have different upgrades from different Factions. It's completely a nonsense don't consider that. If you build a rebel ship you must consider that he can fly with Biggs (yes Lowrick, I'm watching you as another ffg "nearly" mistake). If you build a scum ship you must consider that it can upgrade Unhiged Astromechs and Attanni Mindlink. Did you ever ask yourself why Mindlink is scum only? Can you immagine that upgrade into A-Wings (double elite) and in the EMPIRE faction?! That's why Protectorates have no evade man...

Never compare 2 ships together between factions. It's like compare a soccer player with a basketball one. Between factions you have totally different considerations to do, as a game designer.

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Since I saw this post the other day, I started working the M3-A into my lists. It reminds me a bit of an A-Wingin the way it flies, obviously without the ability to carry to EPSs. It's pairing well with the Shadowcaster so far.

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3 hours ago, Cerve said:

Never compare 2 ships together between factions. It's like compare a soccer player with a basketball one. Between factions you have totally different considerations to do, as a game designer.

You are absolutely correct that faction-only upgrades and pilot synergies must be considered in game design, but insisting ships of different factions cannot be compared under any circumstances is the most falacious argument I’ve ever seen on the subject of X-wing game design.

All ships, regardless of faction, have a set of common traits. Pilot Skill, Attack, Hull, Shields, Action Bars, Upgrade Bars and Maneuver Dials, Squad Points. Every common trait before Squad Points should combine to determine a baseline for Squad Points. Any two ships with similar values in each of those traits should have similar Point Value. You’re trying to tell me making that comparison is wrong because I’m doing it across faction lines.

Your reasons for decrying my methodology are impressionistic and intangible. By excluding simple value-per-point comparisons, you essentially argued that the only determining factor in point cost should be the faction-restricted abilities a ship can be combined with. That’s so ridiculous I have to consider whether or not you’re just trolling me.

I demonstrated through multiple examples that Scum repeatedly gets more value per point. In the face of reasonable evidence, you just keep rewording the same unfounded protests. I’m not wasting anymore energy on this. Congratulations, you stonewalled me into quitting a topic.  Knotch that in your belt as a victory if you must. I’m out.

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50 minutes ago, Luner_Eclipse said:

Soooooo from what I gather I should not buy an m3 and buy jm5k?

If you're deciding between those two, and you plan to use Scum faction more than the others, I'd say the jm5k is a better value.

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