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jocke01

Let's talk liberty

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Okey

I have for the most part played with the small rebel ships with either mon mothma or dodonna as a commander. I do however own 2 liberty expansions that have only seen the table twice. It usually end up something like this:

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
-  Custom Commander  ( 0  points) 
 Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 132 total ship cost

Just fly it straight towards the enemy fleet guns blazing. It works...okey. Since I'm pretty new to big ships I wondered how you guys use your liberty's?


Do you have any good idea for a list? , what support ships?, what objectives?, what commander? Does double liberty lists work? 

Edited by jocke01

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6 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

Okey

I have for the most part played with the small rebel ships with either mon mothma or dodonna as a commander. I do however own 2 liberty expansions that have only seen the table twice. It usually end up something like this:

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
-  Custom Commander  ( 0  points) 
 Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 132 total ship cost

Just fly it straight towards the enemy fleet guns blazing. It works...okey. Since I'm pretty new to big ships I wondered how you guys use your liberty's?


Do you have any good idea for a list? , what support ships?, what objectives?, what commander? Does double liberty lists work? 

Madine with Admo makes a nice 1-2 punch. I like to keep the Liberty fairly cheap, <125 points prior to Madine. 

Here was my 19th ranked NA championship list.  Drop FCT for less fighter objective shenanigans. 

GenCon Final (396/400)
=====================
MC80 Star Cruiser (96 + 59)
    + General Madine (30)
    + Gunnery Team (7)
    + Leading Shots (4)
    + Fighter Coordination Team (3)
    + Spinal Armament (9)
    + XI7 Turbolasers (6)
MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 25)
    + Ordnance Experts (4)
    + Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
    + H9 Turbolasers (8)
    + Admonition (8)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 9)
    + Toryn Farr (7)
    + Bright Hope (2)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 2)
    + Comms Net (2)
GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 2)
    + Comms Net (2)
Shara Bey (17)
3 x VCX-100 Freighter (15)
2 x HWK-290 (12)
Most Wanted
Fire Lanes
Sensor Net

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I have run fleets with 1, 2, and 3 Liberties (Libertys?).

Posted recently in fleet subforum:

Sato - (What was I thinking) Liberty 
Author: Church14 

Faction: Rebel Alliance 
Points: 398/400  

Commander: Commander Sato 

Assault Objective: Most Wanted 
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost 
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep 

 

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  NK-7 Ion Cannons  ( 10  points) 
= 120 total ship cost

 

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  NK-7 Ion Cannons  ( 10  points) 
= 120 total ship cost

 

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points) 
= 71 total ship cost

 

1 Han Solo ( 26 points) 
2 YT-1300s ( 26 points) 
1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 

Card view link

 

Damage output isnt amazing, but it strips defense tokens like no fleet Ive ever seen. That makes the so-so damage output hurt a lot more  

 

For 3 Liberties, I ran 3x MC80B/Gunnery Team/Leading Shots/Engine Techs with Rieekan. It’s a huge risk-reward fleet that is very dependent on matchups. It is less exposed than you would think (but still very exposed) to heavy bomber fleets as it just tends to blow up the carriers very quickly. 

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I've been experimenting with a Liberty Madine list that runs two CR90B with SW7s (one is Jaina's Light and carries Madine), a fully loaded Admonition with ECM, Intel, ACM/OE, and Mon Karren with H9+XI7, Lando and Gunnery Team. I find running it at speed 3 and spamming nav / confire gets me where I need to be for the most part. This fleet is only running Tycho, Shaara, and two Z-95s, though, so it dies to bombers pretty fast; I'm still working on ways to deal with that.

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A buddy of mine ran a liberty with a completely bizarre set up, but it was oddly functional. His idea was that no matter what side of the liberty you got on, it had the same amount of firepower. The rest of his fleet was designed around keeping it alive.

It actually won a few matches locally, a few of our Mc30 players got caught trying to swing wide and it just didn't work.

Anyways.... here's something similar to what he had


 

I mean, if it works? 

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 397/400  

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

 

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
-  Admiral Ackbar  ( 38  points) 
 Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 
-  Intel Officer  ( 7  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Engineering Team  ( 5  points) 
-  Quad Battery Turrets  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
= 183 total ship cost

 

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)
 Redemption  ( 8  points) 
-  Projection Experts  ( 6  points) 
= 65 total ship cost

 

Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points) 
-  Shields to Maximum!  ( 6  points) 
= 69 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Leia Organa  ( 3  points) 
-  Repair Crews  ( 4  points) 
= 25 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Repair Crews  ( 4  points) 
= 22 total ship cost

 

3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points) 


 

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I prefer Spinal and Quad Turbo Cannon over Spinal and Mon Karren. Let's you kill flotillas easier. 

The Liberty is a flanking ship IMO. It should be deployed last in a way to crash into your opponents flank. The rest of your fleet should be deployed across from your opponent so they have to pick what they want to deal with. If the Liberty is the center of your fleet, it tends to die quickly because it's not built to take damage, especially from squads.

This is my favorite build:

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Engine Techs  ( 8  points) 
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points) 
-  Quad Turbolaser Cannons  ( 10  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
148 total ship cost 

Expensive to be sure, but built to kill everything. 

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39 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Running a Liberty w/o Engine Techs seems rather pointless. Doubly so with Madine.

With ET you have an agile long-range killer nothing can escape from.

Without it's just not such a good predator.

Totally agree with this - its currently the only large base ship with effective speed four. Thats a unique feature that, in my mind, makes it worth the points. Why leave it hanging with the regular speed three crowd? 

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My most recent MC80L list beat (barely) a 10-squad Sloan/ISD1/VSD2/Gonzatti fleet.

My Liberty was set up for squads with Dodanna, FCT, FLC, X17s and XX9s, Liberty title. Ran with 

6-anti fighter squads (Dash, Wedge, Xwing,  Jan and 2x Z95) and 3 bombers (2 Bwings and Norra)

Ran alongside a AFKmk2 with Veteran Captain, RBD and FC, and a Comms Net Flotilla w/Ashoka. 

We traded all our ships with the VSD2 and my GR65s living, but I lost only the two z95s and got mist of his squads except for Jendon, the Labmda and a TIE/a. I also got one of the stations making the objective a wash. 

Id post pics but getting an image size limit and Google Drive is being odd (will try again later - posting from my phone right now)

 

Edited by eliteone

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Oh yeah, I also ran a Commander Leia fleet with a MC80S/GunTeams/Liberty/FCT next to a Flight Controllers/EHB/External Racks Torpedo Hammerhead. 

 

It was a fantasticallly bass ackwards set of carriers. 7 squad activations from ships with 1 and 2 squad values. Both of which could throw solid punches. I think the remaining fleet was an MC30, CR90 and squads

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56 minutes ago, GammonLord said:

Totally agree with this - its currently the only large base ship with effective speed four. Thats a unique feature that, in my mind, makes it worth the points. Why leave it hanging with the regular speed three crowd? 

I usually run ETs myself, but to me, the point of the Liberty is ISD offense at a discount. Past a certain point, taking too many upgrades leaves you better off just running an ISD list, imo; and ETs is a pricey pickup that can sometimes be worth dropping.

 

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Our best player in Tucson ran a two liberty list at one of the store champs and mopped the floor with the players there. I'm not sure what his exact build was but I do know that he uses them more as maneuverable flankers than battering rams.

If recall correctly he also had a decent contingent of non-ace fighters on the field as well. His lists generally focus on running a lot of ships with few upgrades and non-ace fighters, a necessity when you're running something expensive like a LMC80. It's a pretty nutty and expensive route to go but running them stripped down and maneuverable seems to be the way to go.

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3 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Running a Liberty w/o Engine Techs seems rather pointless. Doubly so with Madine.

With ET you have an agile long-range killer nothing can escape from.

Without it's just not such a good predator.

Okey,  running engine techs sounds like fun. Madine + antilles will make it fly around like a flanking corvette, I like it!
 

3 hours ago, Viktor Tanek said:

Also, the Liberty is a battle cruiser, not a battleship. It will lose 1-1 to an ISD. It is a small/medium ship killer. With Madine, use it to flank. Hammer and anvil style. It is not a rebel ISD. 

I have faced an isd head on and lost so this I am awere. I will try to fly it as a flanker a few games and see how it goes.
 

1 hour ago, svelok said:

I usually run ETs myself, but to me, the point of the Liberty is ISD offense at a discount. Past a certain point, taking too many upgrades leaves you better off just running an ISD list, imo; and ETs is a pricey pickup that can sometimes be worth dropping.

 

Rebels can't runt ISD's :P

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This is the list I used at the Nordic Armada Championship last Saturday

My Liberty was mostly ignored by my opponents, as they prefered to lock down or attack my Yavaris combo, but having them near each other, really makes a nice combo and the Liberty acted as a great finisher, on wounded prey that the Yavaris combo had beaten to a pulp.

"One Pizza slice never saw that Liberty comming"

Fun Fun List 16 

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400  

Commander: Garm Bel Iblis

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

 

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
-  Garm Bel Iblis  ( 25  points) 
-  Gunnery Team  ( 7  points) 
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points) 
132 total ship cost

 

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)
-  Yavaris  ( 5  points) 
-  Flight Commander  ( 3  points) 
-  Fighter Coordination Team  ( 3  points) 
68 total ship cost

 

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36 points)
-  External Racks  ( 3  points) 
39 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Leia Organa  ( 3  points) 
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points) 
23 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Ahsoka Tano  ( 2  points) 
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points) 
22 total ship cost

 

1 Keyan Farlander ( 20 points) 
1 Ten Numb ( 19 points) 
1 HWK-290 ( 12 points) 
1 YT-1300 ( 13 points) 
4 X-Wing Squadrons ( 52 points) 

Edited by Kiwi Rat

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The BC is my favorite ship in the game, and I almost always take it out with Engine Techs, Gunnery Teams, and Leading Shots. Spinals if I have the points. And Always ALWAYS with Madine. There's nothing as satisfying as blasting two small ships to pop them, and then maneuver out of arc afterwards. Much like Demo, it favors going first and acting as a bully. 

You need at least one other major threat in a BC list, and Admonition is a good partner for it and works well with Madine.

@Vergilius has written several times on his fleet and how he uses it. You could also see my Nova Open battle report.

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This is my favorite Liberty:

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
-  General Madine  ( 30  points) 
 Mon Karren  ( 8  points) 
-  Walex Blissex  ( 5  points) 
-  Veteran Gunners  ( 5  points) 
-  Engine Techs  ( 8  points) 
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points) 
-  SW 7 Ion Batteries  ( 5  points) 
= 173 total ship cost

Blissex lets you burn through your tokens without worry and the combination of Veteran Gunners and SW7 lets you reroll anytime your reds are below average. Madine and Engine Techs are a must.

Lately I've used it together with 2 torpedo Hammerheads, 2 flottillas and 90ish points of anti-squadron fighters but swapping the Hammerheads for Admonition also works great.

 

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7 hours ago, svelok said:

I usually run ETs myself, but to me, the point of the Liberty is ISD offense at a discount. Past a certain point, taking too many upgrades leaves you better off just running an ISD list, imo; and ETs is a pricey pickup that can sometimes be worth dropping.

 

Aww c'mon, it's so much more (and indeed, so much less in some regards) than an ISD! :D It's ISD offence AND the ability to get into amazing firing positions and avoiding enemy arcs, for the cost of 8 points (and further enhanced, perhaps necessarily so, by Madine). 

I find it a hard ship to use correctly, and have suffered a lot using it,  but when it does do it thing it's beautiful.

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I am running a Star Cruiser for my CC campaign with Mon Karren, ET, GT, X17, LS, and QBT. So far it's been a beast. Slow rolling it behind my Hammerheads means it can come in and one-shot VSDs and Glads after they've been softened up. Very effective so far.

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1 hour ago, geek19 said:

It's going to be the linchpin of my Raddus fleet. Nav Teams, QBT, Xi7s, Gunnery Team, and SW7s makes for some problems in your side arc FAST. Cheap, too, for a Liberty.

I tested this with a Raddus list as well, and it's going to be my go-to also.  Though you could probably get by without the Nav teams - Raddus lets you position easily enough, if you want to go super-budget.

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It looks like a lot of others have covered the basics.  At this point, the dangers of the Liberty are fairly well known.

To mention some of the story once again, about this time last year, I went on a journey of discovering a new fleet after some of those I'd tried in the past had bored me.  AT the time, no one was all that impressed with the Liberty.  It had a relatively bad rap here on the forums and most of the tried-and-true builds of the past were in ascendance.  Likewise, Madine didn't receive a lot of prominence either.

As it turns out, a Madine Liberty build can do extremely well.  What you want is some way to make the ship an absolutely bully to smaller ships.  Since most small ships lack ECM or even the slot for ECM, the easiest way to one shot them is to have an accuracy that locks out a key token.  Additionally, most of the top end small ships and the medium ships tend to suffer severely when two or more accuracies come into play.   So that would naturally suggest H9, although you do have fairly high odds of rolling an accuracy just with the natural blue/red dice mix.  Still, H9 isn't the only way.  XI7 can help drilling through enemy hulls.  At this point, I've tried nearly every turbolaser combination in the two slots across both variants.  In the end, I'm not sure any given build makes one set super-better than another.  You basically end up with the right set of tools for one set of units and not another, which means that whatever turbolaser combo you pick, you need to build the rest of the fleet around supporting that choice.

About upgrades:

Engine Techs:  Pretty much essential.  I could see some BC builds with Spinal possibly going without, especially if you're not running Madine.  The SC pretty much needs ET because your range is much more limited and you have to be able to hit medium range to guarantee kill shots.

Gunnery Team:  This is exceptionally necessary on the BC, because you want to make as many good long range shots as possible during the game.  I could see a non-GT SC build that looks to double-arc and push through damage.

Titles:  Endeavor is one of my favorites and an old staple.  I've typically run light squads, and the point of Endeavor is to give your Liberty more survivability versus bombers.  This is probably the best of the titles.  Liberty:  I have serious problems finding success with this.  What it does is provide a way for you to use your command dial while activating two squads from a token.  It is probably best with Garm, but if you've got a way to pass tokens, then I could see it succeeding in some matches.   Mon Karren:  This is a beautiful title, basically think of a slightly better XI7 for 2 points more. The one problem is that it doesn't end up working as an XI7 against the one unit you really need it to: the MC30.  Otherwise, most big ships will Brace without redirecting or containing.

BC: Leading shots---you've got tons of red dice that you want to reroll blanks and excessive accuracies on.

SC:  SW---with one fewer red dice, you're better off taking SW-7 to maximize damage from blues, pairs especially well with Mon Karren, which basically wants to cede all choice of token to the opponent while ramping up damage.  a Mon Karren/SW-7/SC has the same average damage of a BC for a 20 point discount.

Turbolasers:   On a BC,  I ran H9/QTC at Worlds, and that is still one of my favorites and one of the deadliest anti-flotilla combos.  It is probably better than XI7, but you pay for it.   I've run H9/Spinal before if you just want to increase down-range red dice and maximize damage.  Spinal/XI7 relies on your native red/blue dice for any accuracies, but picks up a sure MC30 killer at a cheaper cost.  On a SC, the only one that really sticks out to me is DTT---you want just enough to reroll your blank red dice, but you don't want to spend blues on Leading shots for that reroll.  If I'm not taking MK, then I usually have DTT/XI7 on the SC.  And yes, I could see  XX-9 in a Dodonna list, but that is generally giving up another reliable generalist turbolaser to double-down on a Dodonna ability that may or may not be valuable.

Officers:  I've also played tons of different officers in the slot here.  Skilled First Officer is pretty powerful in that you get some Slicer Tool protection for really cheap, and against nearly any list, you get some command flexibility.  That pretty big for a 1 point officer.  Raymus was a good early staple---super commands are pretty powerful, and having that token with Madine really gives you tons of maneuvering flexibility and speed adjustments.  In light squad builds, I really like Derlin, because he does so much to extend the life of your tokens when you face a stronger/heavier squad make-up.  If you're trying to have your LIberty go toe-to-toe with a bigger ship, then Lando can give you one more big shot that you can take.

 

I think the two poles of Liberty builds are represented by my build with light squads and Aresius' Dodonna build with heavy squads (10 squads!).  Something like Viktor Tanek's build above comes in closer to my end of the pole, but in adding strategic/objective manipulation into the mix.  I've also been running a few variants lately that lean closer to Aresius' pole of things.

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1 hour ago, Maturin said:

I tested this with a Raddus list as well, and it's going to be my go-to also.  Though you could probably get by without the Nav teams - Raddus lets you position easily enough, if you want to go super-budget.

My plan is to utilize Profundity and Tantive IV ejecting Raymus to get free tokens. I don't know if it will WORK, mind you, but it's what I'm starting with.

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