Tractor Beam

[mithosiris 11]

Hi guys, we are having a discussion in my community about how tractor beam performs. Some people say that you cant overlap the maneuver template on an asteroid when performing a tractor beam and some other say that you can overlap It. So anyone knows how we should use it? Thank you so much.

Edited October 10, 2017 by mithosiris

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

You can.  It's on the reference card specifically.

[mithosiris 11]

Sorry I edited, I mean overlap the maneuver template.

[Metalbag 3]

The Tractor Beam reference card names "the ship can overlap...", but it say nothing about the maneuver template.

The barrel roll and the boost rules, specify that neither the base of the ship nor the maneuver template can overlap an asteroid.

So... it seems that when you are tratorized, the maneuver template cannot overlap, but the ships base can.

So... the "counter" of Tractor Beam is paradoxically flying near the asteroids.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Metalbag

[WhisperEcho 7]

You can Tractor Beam someone onto an obstacle. The only two things you cannot do is move them off the map or bump them into another ship.

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

3 minutes ago, WhisperEcho said:

You can Tractor Beam someone onto an obstacle. The only two things you cannot do is move them off the map or bump them into another ship.

Which doesn't actually answer the question...

[WhisperEcho 7]

I would still say yes, because it is not a maneuver. 

[Metalbag 3]

22 minutes ago, WhisperEcho said:

You can Tractor Beam someone onto an obstacle. The only two things you cannot do is move them off the map or bump them into another ship.

The first time you get a Tractor Beam token, the oponent can make you do a barrel roll or a straight boost.

Both of them say that neither base nor the maneuver template can overlap an obstacle.

The tractor beam reference card says, that in that case, the ship base can overlap, but nowhere says anything about the maneuver template.

Can you explain me where in the rules or FAQ is explained that the maneuver template can overlap?

[Pooleman 963]

3 minutes ago, Metalbag said:

The first time you get a Tractor Beam token, the oponent can make you do a barrel roll or a straight boost.

Both of them say that neither base nor the maneuver template can overlap an obstacle.

The tractor beam reference card says, that in that case, the ship base can overlap, but nowhere says anything about the maneuver template.

Can you explain me where in the rules or FAQ is explained that the maneuver template can overlap?

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/Tractor_Beam

 

Read this. From the page:

"This is not an action or a maneuver, and can cause the ship to overlap obstacles (but not other ships). The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps."

 

[Pooleman 963]

10 minutes ago, Metalbag said:

The first time you get a Tractor Beam token, the oponent can make you do a barrel roll or a straight boost.

Both of them say that neither base nor the maneuver template can overlap an obstacle.

The tractor beam reference card says, that in that case, the ship base can overlap, but nowhere says anything about the maneuver template.

Can you explain me where in the rules or FAQ is explained that the maneuver template can overlap?

 

Read the last line of the card, Porkchop. It's right there.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Pooleman

[joeshmoe554 839]

2 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

"This is not an action or a maneuver, and can cause the ship to overlap obstacles (but not other ships). The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps."

This is not at question.  Everybody understands that a tractor beam can cause a ship to overlap an obstacle.  The question being presented is if a tractor beam can be used to barrel roll a ship, when the template crosses an obstacle.  A boost or barrel roll would normally be prevented since you cannot take that action if the maneuver template overlaps an obstacle and there is nothing in the Tractor Beam reference card to counter that text.

I can't think of anywhere it would say that the template can overlap an obstacle, but I've also never questioned it.  It seems like a slip-up on FFG's part to me.

[Sephlar 260]

Just now, joeshmoe554 said:

A boost or barrel roll would normally be prevented since you cannot take that action if the maneuver template overlaps an obstacle and there is nothing in the Tractor Beam reference card to counter that text.

I can't think of anywhere it would say that the template can overlap an obstacle, but I've also never questioned it.  It seems like a slip-up on FFG's part to me.

You stated normally. This is not normal. It's not actually a boost or a barrel roll. It's not  a maneuver or an action.

Precedence has been set in every high level tournament.

[Pooleman 963]

9 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

This is not at question.  Everybody understands that a tractor beam can cause a ship to overlap an obstacle.  The question being presented is if a tractor beam can be used to barrel roll a ship, when the template crosses an obstacle.  A boost or barrel roll would normally be prevented since you cannot take that action if the maneuver template overlaps an obstacle and there is nothing in the Tractor Beam reference card to counter that text.

I can't think of anywhere it would say that the template can overlap an obstacle, but I've also never questioned it.  It seems like a slip-up on FFG's part to me.

Since it isn't a maneuver at all we don't need to worry about the template overlapping. You only worry about the template overlapping when you perform a maneuver. Performing a "boost" or Barrel roll" as a result of the tractor beam is neither considered and action nor is it considered a maneuver. It is not a slip up of any kind. The tractor beam moves the target ship. To determine the target ships resting position you move it as though it boosted or barrel rolled. You can ignore all rules about barrel rolling, boosting, and manuevering because this is not considered a boost, barrel roll, or maneuver, as it CLEARLY states on the card.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Pooleman

[joeshmoe554 839]

Just now, Sephlar said:

You stated normally. This is not normal. It's not actually a boost or a barrel roll. It's not  a maneuver or an action.

It is a boost or barrel roll since it says, "Perform a barrel roll" or "Perform a boost".  It is not a boost or barrel roll action, so a player cannot prevent the tractor beam from moving them by taking that action earlier in the round.  I also acknowledge it is not a normal boost or barrel roll, since this allows a ship to overlap an obstacle as stated on the reference card, while they normally do not, but there is nothing on the reference card regarding the maneuver template.

Just now, Sephlar said:

Precedence has been set in every high level tournament.

I'm not arguing the current way it is played and I think it is being played correctly, but I think this is a case where the tech writer missed something when typing up the rules.

3 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

Since it isn't a maneuver at all we don't need to worry about the template overlapping. You only worry about the template overlapping when you perform a maneuver.

"A ship cannot boost if it would overlap another ship or an obstacle token, or if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token." - Rules Reference "Boost"

" ship cannot barrel roll if it would overlap another ship or an obstacle token, or if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token." - Rules Reference "Barrel Roll"

Both the boost and barrel roll cannot be performed if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token, even if the ship would not.

[Sephlar 260]

Ever watch the movie The Village?

Sometimes communities do things very different than the rest of the world.

You are welcome to play xwing however you and your opponent wants. But if the rest of the global xwing community plays it differently, you'd have to either accept that or choose not to play with anyone outside your group.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Sephlar

[Pooleman 963]

2 minutes ago, joeshmoe554 said:

It is a boost or barrel roll since it says, "Perform a barrel roll" or "Perform a boost".  It is not a boost or barrel roll action, so a player cannot prevent the tractor beam from moving them by taking that action earlier in the round.  I also acknowledge it is not a normal boost or barrel roll, since this allows a ship to overlap an obstacle as stated on the reference card, while they normally do not, but there is nothing on the reference card regarding the maneuver template.

I'm not arguing the current way it is played and I think it is being played correctly, but I think this is a case where the tech writer missed something when typing up the rules.

"A ship cannot boost if it would overlap another ship or an obstacle token, or if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token." - Rules Reference "Boost"

" ship cannot barrel roll if it would overlap another ship or an obstacle token, or if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token." - Rules Reference "Barrel Roll"

Both the boost and barrel roll cannot be performed if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token, even if the ship would not.

This is starting to frustrate me. Play how ever you like, bro. The template CAN overlap. It's not a maneuver or an action so you are NOT BOUND to the typical rules that govern actions or maneuvers.

[joeshmoe554 839]

@mithosiris  So to answer the original question.  The majority of players treat the tractor beam token like collision detector, "When performing a boost, barrel roll" ... "your ship and maneuver template can overlap obstacles."  So the maneuver template on a boost or barrel roll from a tractor beam can overlap obstacles, and I think pretty much everyone here agrees that is the way it is meant to be played.

Sadly, I don't think there is any definitive statement in the Rules Reference, FAQ or other documentation to settle the argument quickly and simply.

[joelgb 8]

24 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

This is starting to frustrate me. Play how ever you like, bro. The template CAN overlap. It's not a maneuver or an action so you are NOT BOUND to the typical rules that govern actions or maneuvers.

the Rules Reference clearly says:

"A ship cannot barrel roll if it would overlap another ship or an obstacle token, or if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token"

so there are two different ways when overlapping: With the ship or with the template. The Tractor Beam reference card in the FAQ clearly says the SHIP, nor the template, Which mean that you perform the boost or barrel roll according to the Reference Card/Rules Reference with the exception that the Tractor Beam allows you to overlap the SHIP

[Pooleman 963]

4 minutes ago, joelgb said:

the Rules Reference clearly says:

"A ship cannot barrel roll if it would overlap another ship or an obstacle token, or if the maneuver template would overlap an obstacle token"

so there are two different ways when overlapping: With the ship or with the template. The Tractor Beam reference card in the FAQ clearly says the SHIP, nor the template, Which mean that you perform the boost or barrel roll according to the Reference Card/Rules Reference with the exception that the Tractor Beam allows you to overlap the SHIP

LOL. Someone get FFG on the phone. 

[Infinite_Maelstrom 291]

Did you used to be able to barrel roll  ships off the board with Tractor Beam?

[mithosiris 11]

Well here you are having the same discussion as we are having. We think that this needs to be faqed. We think the intention of the card is that you are able to overlap the maeuver template but the rules show you cant. So we are at the same starting point I think...

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

34 minutes ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Did you used to be able to barrel roll  ships off the board with Tractor Beam?

No but only because it changed iirc with the tfa rulebook.

[Pooleman 963]

2 hours ago, mithosiris said:

Well here you are having the same discussion as we are having. We think that this needs to be faqed. We think the intention of the card is that you are able to overlap the maeuver template but the rules show you cant. So we are at the same starting point I think...

I think we are expected to use a little common sense here.

[joelgb 8]

5 hours ago, Pooleman said:

I think we are expected to use a little common sense here.

common sense says you can't use Feedback Array when cloacked, but you can

Edited October 11, 2017 by joelgb

[Smuggler 556]

Based on the rules and cards quoted in this thread, I'd have to agrea that rules as writen, you are not allowed to tracktorbeam BR/Boost someone so that the template overlapps an obstacle. I would recomend sending a rules question to FFG so that it might be adressed in a future FAQ.

As for "common sense", when it comes to rules discusions, it is mostly synonumus with "I have no argumets to support my view".