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Shiba Jaimi

Duels...Dueling...Duelist

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20 minutes ago, Shiba Jaimi said:

Because it is not clearly stated up front, as with every other card action in the game. You making a bid is not clear cost, it is a gamble. This idea is stated clearly in the rules.

 

My second point is the argument that each micro-conflict, other than dueling, brings you closer to a win condition. In dueling, you can get both closer and farther away at the same time. No other action in the game does this. Paying costs is marshaling resources up front to create the effect that changes the board in your favor. The dueling rules, very often, do not do this.

You said, "If you can't pay the cost, or it actively moves you towards not winning, don't use the ability!" you do not know the exact cost of the duel until you resolve it, that IS NOT A COST!

 

My final effort to be rational with you:

Costs aren't just things printed on a card.  There are many different kinds of costs.  Perhaps you should take an economics class to learn about such things.  In terms of the game, costs are what you pay to try and achieve a particular goal.  Individual cards themselves have costs, which you pay, like the Fate cost, or the honor cost on Assassination.  However, you also pay the opportunity cost of not having that card available to use later.  Perhaps it would have been better used later, not now?  Other opportunity costs are choices you didn't make. 

For example, You can only afford one more character, and have two choices.  A cost you pay is not buying the other.  Finally, there are a ton of other choices in choosing your conflicts.  For example, if you commit Dude X to defend, you don't have him to attack.  If you commit Dude Y to attack, you don't have him to defend.  If you choose the Ring of Fire with No Fate on your first attack, then your opponent has the chance to choose the Ring of Air with 2 fate on their first conflict, costing you that fate (Even on top of that choice maybe mattering, as perhaps you are at 1 honor).  

So in your choice of results from dueling, you need to either choose your duel in situations where you will ALWAYS get the result you want, IE bully dueling (Dueling from such a high skill your opponent can't win, so doesn't try), or you need to use your duels in situations where you feel like the result will get you what you want, even if it costs you something else.  If you had a card that said "While in a conflict where you have 3 participating Characters, your opponent has 2 participating character, and you are losing, Bow a character with more Military skill than one of your opponent's characters -  Steal 4 honor from your opponent" Would you play it?  That is the sort of specific situations where dueling is good.  What if the ability was all the same, except the result was: "Your opponent chooses to Give you 4 honor or bow his character"?  That is basically all a duel is.

If you don't like the word "Cost" choose a different word, but the concept is ESSENTIAL to any sophisticated strategy game.  

And on your point of "Its too powerful!"  That is because you are choosing your costs poorly.  Don't choose duels where you have to bid 5 and potentially lose 4 honor.  Bad play doesn't make rules broken.  What you are describing is basically bad play.  In Chess, you don't intentionally move your Queen where it is easily captured for no reason.  In MtG, you generally don't swing with your 1/1 while you have no cards in hand if your opponent has a 3/3 that they can block with.  You are basically arguing that bad choices makes the game unbalanced.  

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7 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

Who said anything about ending the thread? I'm just advocating ending the debate. We can talk purple drinks for another 2 pages for that bet...

Yeah and the OP completely missed the whole part about whether the duelist is using a straight blade or a curved blade.  That's good for at least 8 more pages.

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