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Mantis731

Driven by hatred interaction question

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Hey guys, yesterday we had a tournament and was asked if Vader could use Force surge, during the "activation" at the end of the round because of driven by hatred.

Force surge reads:
Use at the end of your activation to move up to 1 space. Then, choose an adjacent hostile figure. That figure suffers 2 Damage.png and 1 Strain.png.

I want to extend this question to cards like Element of surprise and others that involve timing like "start/end of activation". Every time that a character makes a action outside of his activation, is considered like a activation?

Thanks

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No.

Performing an attack or performing Force Choke does not make it an activation. No-one is activating during end of round.

(Element of Surprise can be used during some other figure's activation though - elite imperial Officer, Jabba, Emperor, etc. allowing another figure to perform an attack during this activation. Element of Surprise has been ruled to refer to "this activation" instead of "your activation".)

 

Edited by a1bert

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So any card that is "start/during/end of activation" it can't be used outside of that figure's normal activation right? But I could use fleet footed on a figure that is resolving a movement because of an Order of a Imp. Officer?

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No. Be literal. A card that is at start, during, or end of AN activation can be used at the relevant moment at any figure's activation. If if is "at the start of your activation", "during your activation", or "at the end of  your activation", it can only be used at the proper moment of your own activation.

Fleet Footed is "during your activation", so it cannot be used by a figure getting to perform a move during other figure's activation. (It is the Imperial Officer's activation when performing Order.)

 

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On 8/10/2017 at 7:34 PM, a1bert said:

No. Be literal. A card that is at start, during, or end of AN activation can be used at the relevant moment at any figure's activation. If if is "at the start of your activation", "during your activation", or "at the end of  your activation", it can only be used at the proper moment of your own activation.

Fleet Footed is "during your activation", so it cannot be used by a figure getting to perform a move during other figure's activation. (It is the Imperial Officer's activation when performing Order.)

Although this isn't valid for element of surprise. The FAQ (2.3 page 5 "command cards") explicitly allows players to use this card during an interrupt. This in my opinion is somewhat consistent with section "YOU" of the FAQ. In example I interpret "your activation" as the activation of the player's figure currently active. It isn't "that figure's activation" with reference to the attacker, it's "Your" as defined by section "YOU". Also I would take into account that the attack is just mentioned by the trigger. Anything else is unrelated to the attacker.

Edited by Golan Trevize

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Element of Surprise doesn't have a timing that is during an activation. It has a condition that refers to the current activation (after the ruling).

So you can use Element of Surprise when there is no activation, but you cannot get the benefit, because the condition cannot be resolved.

Edited by a1bert

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Just now, DTDanix said:

Can you use Element of Surprise during an end of round attack, like the Driven by Hatred thing?
Since it isn't an activation, seems like "no" here.

That is what I advocate, but there's (at least currently) an (old) ruling that Element of Surprise can be used during end of round, which I'm trying to overturn. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/242597-battlefield-leadership-and-element-of-surprise/#comment-2651335

My opinion is that if an ability refers to an activation, it cannot be used when no activation is happening. This was originally in line with Paul's ruling on Precise Strike not being available during End of Round. The Massive figure (end of) movement rules have a fix for movement outside of activations just because Start of Round and End of Round triggers(!) are not activations.

Note that Start and End of Round are not phases, they are steps, and each provide just one trigger for abilities, unlike activations, which is a phase. Abilities triggered off End of Round happen at the same time. When you resolve one, you are still at the same trigger. In conjunction with Element of Surprise this means (thematically and perhaps game-mechanically) that when you declare an attack using an end of round ability, it is the exactly the same moment you check the "you not in line sight of the target" condition.
 

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