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Psalm 112

(new) Obi-Wan Maz the Next Big Thing?

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Play tested this and it seems super good, especially with Obi's new saber.  Will this be heroes long awaited dominant blue deck?  With both of Maz's dice able to be used, it easily hits six damage every turn, just on character dice, often without re-rolls.  And its fast, and really tough.  Been using cargo hold and second chance to slide second chances off of Maz, onto Obi, or just mess with opponents upgrades.  Is this the next biggie?

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48 minutes ago, Psalm 112 said:

Play tested this and it seems super good, especially with Obi's new saber.  Will this be heroes long awaited dominant blue deck?  With both of Maz's dice able to be used, it easily hits six damage every turn, just on character dice, often without re-rolls.  And its fast, and really tough.  Been using cargo hold and second chance to slide second chances off of Maz, onto Obi, or just mess with opponents upgrades.  Is this the next biggie?

I was playing around with the idea and it seems interesting. Problem is that if they drop Obi your left with Maz who is not going to really be able to close. Yes you could argue that Second Chance helps keep Obi alive but its not hard for other decks to come up with 8+ damage on a single turn to vap Maz off the board. I liked the idea but I think a better pairing is Obi with a single dice  Luke. Lukes ability to resolve on of his dice at +2 to its value is a really good closer.

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With action cheating like Sabine! You roll in Obi-Wan then Sabine mitigate's your dice.  Sabine rolls in with her ambush weapon hitting you without getting mitigated. She's using running interference to prevent you from keeping pace. You may not even get a turn if she has two of them. Seems to me, until we get a good FAQ we are doomed to the will of two or three Meta Decks.  Just where I'm playing, I can see these busted combos killing a game that's  still in its infancy.

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7 hours ago, GamerGuy1984 said:

I was playing around with the idea and it seems interesting. Problem is that if they drop Obi your left with Maz who is not going to really be able to close. Yes you could argue that Second Chance helps keep Obi alive but its not hard for other decks to come up with 8+ damage on a single turn to vap Maz off the board. I liked the idea but I think a better pairing is Obi with a single dice  Luke. Lukes ability to resolve on of his dice at +2 to its value is a really good closer.

I also like the idea of Elite new Rey 1 dice new obiwan so you roll obiwan auto giving a shield to new rey and then you roll her in to deal 1 automatic point of damage.

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1 hour ago, tunewalker said:

I also like the idea of Elite new Rey 1 dice new obiwan so you roll obiwan auto giving a shield to new rey and then you roll her in to deal 1 automatic point of damage.

Hmm interesting, you'd have terrible dice though.

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8 hours ago, GamerGuy1984 said:

I was playing around with the idea and it seems interesting. Problem is that if they drop Obi your left with Maz who is not going to really be able to close. Yes you could argue that Second Chance helps keep Obi alive but its not hard for other decks to come up with 8+ damage on a single turn to vap Maz off the board. I liked the idea but I think a better pairing is Obi with a single dice  Luke. Lukes ability to resolve on of his dice at +2 to its value is a really good closer.

I've changed the deck around and its been untouchable.  I took out second chance and cut the deck down to just ten upgrades all weapons.  The rest of the deck is almost all mitagation.  I also changed out cargo hold for frozen wastes.  And now the deck is even more awesome.  Basically it's crazy hard to kill anyone, and Obi just pumps out damage.  The only problem is if they take out maz.  Then you lose speed and consistency.  Try changing your deck like I've described though, and I think you'll find it's better. 

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Last night a friend of mine played 12 health K2-SO against SOR Vader/ 2p Phasma. He took his battlefield. To sum up what happened: Vader/Phasma rolled 2 specials and 2 other sides. He played new orders to switch to emperors throne room and use a special. Resolved 2 more specials...claimed and killed K2-SO round one. So do I think a heavy hitting 12 health character with a weak sidekick will be great?....I sadly don't. This game favors decks that can put out 10+ damage a round without sneezing. As much removal as I use now days just to keep up with these decks I think Obi-Wan will be lucky to land one die per round. Now if you pair him with another decent character maybe it's a different story but Maz has never been the answer outside of Poe. 

Edited by DarthBlade

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12 hours ago, DarthBlade said:

Last night a friend of mine played 12 health K2-SO against SOR Vader/ 2p Phasma. He took his battlefield. To sum up what happened: Vader/Phasma rolled 2 specials and 2 other sides. He played new orders to switch to emperors throne room and use a special. Resolved 2 more specials...claimed and killed K2-SO round one. So do I think a heavy hitting 12 health character with a weak sidekick will be great?....I sadly don't. This game favors decks that can put out 10+ damage a round without sneezing. As much removal as I use now days just to keep up with these decks I think Obi-Wan will be lucky to land one die per round. Now if you pair him with another decent character maybe it's a different story but Maz has never been the answer outside of Poe. 

Explain to me then how mace is competetive, or Dady Vader.  And also, the situation u just described is super lucky.  And seriously even a take cover would have saved k2.

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What do you think makes this better than Poe/Maz?

It seems that Obi-Wan would give you better defences and removing the random element of Poe, at the cost of reduced damage output. That, and trading Blue for Red.

The main issues I see with that are a) defence is almost always worse than attack in this game, b) Obi Wan's shields can be nullified by a lot of cards, like everyone's favorite melee weapon, c) you lose Hit and Run, so lose your prime way to action cheat, and d) Obi-Wan doesn't have the ability to drop AOE damage to ruin swarm decks.

If you think the deck is good, what do you think makes it better than the existing 'Big guy + elite Maz' option?

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6 hours ago, Psalm 112 said:

Explain to me then how mace is competetive, or Dady Vader.  And also, the situation u just described is super lucky.  And seriously even a take cover would have saved k2.

Vader has better sidekick options and events by far which makes him competitive. If he had maz as a partner I don't believe he would be competitive (just my 2 cents on that) but as for mace, the only competitive deck I've heard of is him and a padawan which is 10 damage potential which goes back to my theory of you need to do 10+ to be even in the running for competitive levels and that's with you burning both of your resources per round so it's still not great. Not trying to be a downer but more trying to push the agenda that hero's need more help via cheap partners (which looks like their getting some) and better events (force strike on mace? yes plz!)

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The problem I see is that we're all trying to do "Villain" things with our Hero characters, i.e. put out lots of damage as quickly as possible. The Hero card set however doesn't really support that style of play, or at least not as good as the Villain card set does. Heroes just seem to be made to play more defensively, but so far that's been less effective than the aggressive style, which naturally suits Villains better. This is probably why about 75% of the field at the most recent big tournament (AUS Nationals) was Villain and I think 100% of their top cut was Villain as well. While you can make fine decks with Heroes and they will win you games, they will not do so as consistently as their Villain counterparts do.

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9 hours ago, Palpster said:

The problem I see is that we're all trying to do "Villain" things with our Hero characters, i.e. put out lots of damage as quickly as possible. The Hero card set however doesn't really support that style of play, or at least not as good as the Villain card set does. Heroes just seem to be made to play more defensively, but so far that's been less effective than the aggressive style, which naturally suits Villains better. This is probably why about 75% of the field at the most recent big tournament (AUS Nationals) was Villain and I think 100% of their top cut was Villain as well. While you can make fine decks with Heroes and they will win you games, they will not do so as consistently as their Villain counterparts do.

And that right there is the problem. In a game that is mostly based around damage the side that deals it quickest wins, Villians. Now if Defense was actually viable, meaning there was no Intimidate,Vibroknife/Axe, and no 10+ damage per turn possibilites, Heroes would be viable. I think this is one reason why we have already seen a LOT of Indirect damage. Focusing 10 damage on 1 character usually means 1 dead character per turn, having to split that damage means  lot less crazy swings.

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the inherit problem with having a 2 sided game where one side is aggressive and another is defensive is one will always outshine the other. Either defense is too tough to crack or offense is too great to block.

I've tried to play super defensive lists. It does not work. You take forever to die unless you just get hammered for like 10+ damage, but you do virtually no damage and you arent milling either. Basically i decked out without ever being milled before any characters died in multiple games lol...

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Given Legacies was designed after they found out Heroes were underpowered via the Awakenings meta, hopefully a design goal of the set is to try and remedy that. Fingers crossed, though the faction gap got worse in SoR so they may not have realised that Heroes need a big boost not just a bump. 

Obi looks good, hopefully he'll get a good new partner (a 8/11 blue Bala-type, or a really solid 11).

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34 minutes ago, Theia said:

Given Legacies was designed after they found out Heroes were underpowered via the Awakenings meta, hopefully a design goal of the set is to try and remedy that. Fingers crossed, though the faction gap got worse in SoR so they may not have realised that Heroes need a big boost not just a bump. 

Obi looks good, hopefully he'll get a good new partner (a 8/11 blue Bala-type, or a really solid 11).

Theyve already failed at that with the point costs of new Luke and Han. FN, Unkar, and new Phasma just do so much better and are under costed then these guys. I dont get why Heroes just cant have an awesome 9-10/13 characters as well??

~D

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On 10/9/2017 at 11:37 PM, Abyss said:

What do you think makes this better than Poe/Maz?

It seems that Obi-Wan would give you better defences and removing the random element of Poe, at the cost of reduced damage output. That, and trading Blue for Red.

The main issues I see with that are a) defence is almost always worse than attack in this game, b) Obi Wan's shields can be nullified by a lot of cards, like everyone's favorite melee weapon, c) you lose Hit and Run, so lose your prime way to action cheat, and d) Obi-Wan doesn't have the ability to drop AOE damage to ruin swarm decks.

If you think the deck is good, what do you think makes it better than the existing 'Big guy + elite Maz' option?

To be honest, your right.  Poe is better.  obi just intrested me.

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18 hours ago, Palpster said:

 Heroes just seem to be made to play more defensively, but so far that's been less effective than the aggressive style, which naturally suits Villains better.

Maybe, I think there are a few issues though.

Shields are limited to 3, I believe FFG has overvalued their function and cost and in general there is an opportunity cost in resolving shields. The Opportunity Cost of resolving shields is not in the favour of shields, nearly every dice for a hero has say 2 damage, 2 damage and 1 shield. So your opportunity cost of taking 1 shield is the potential of doing 2 damage. If the game design is to make the heroes more defensive, then that dice should be akin to 2 damage, 2 damage and 2 shields, maybe even 3. And perhaps the dice should have more faces with shields as well.

I would also expect that heroes would have better dice removal and effects that change the facings on your opponents dice. However, I feel that villains get the better of the cards that affect the dice as they are.

In fact one of my biggest complaints about the heroes is that it just isn't clear enough as to what they are good at.

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heck even the gear meant to pump shields out arent that great (diplo immunity, personal shield)

And yeah i agree that looking at the spoiled characters, villains are much better as usual. Boba is decent but still good, however Luke is ... wtf? If it wasnt tied to character die i could see that being pretty potent but his die SUCKS and i need to pay 2 resources to make it better but as a single action...ugh..

Edited by Vineheart01

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12 hours ago, Amanal said:

Maybe, I think there are a few issues though.

Shields are limited to 3, I believe FFG has overvalued their function and cost and in general there is an opportunity cost in resolving shields. The Opportunity Cost of resolving shields is not in the favour of shields, nearly every dice for a hero has say 2 damage, 2 damage and 1 shield. So your opportunity cost of taking 1 shield is the potential of doing 2 damage. If the game design is to make the heroes more defensive, then that dice should be akin to 2 damage, 2 damage and 2 shields, maybe even 3. And perhaps the dice should have more faces with shields as well.

I would also expect that heroes would have better dice removal and effects that change the facings on your opponents dice. However, I feel that villains get the better of the cards that affect the dice as they are.

In fact one of my biggest complaints about the heroes is that it just isn't clear enough as to what they are good at.

Id agree that shields value, both on the dice and how much they affect the game has been misfigured by FFG. First the limit should be 4 or even 5 shields, so a 10 damage swing is only 5 damage which is manageable versus the 7 damage you get now with the 3 limit. Also the shield values on Heroes should equal or exceed what their damage potential is to make them worth it. Imagine if Obi-Wan from Legacies was a 3 Melee, 3 Melee for 1, 1 Shield, 3 Shield for 1, and a Resource. With that dice layout, and the increase in shields, would make it WELL worth resolving say 1 shield and a 3 shield for 1. Because then even if your opponents FN rolls lets say the 1 Melee and 3 from Baton you just negated the damage, which is what shields where meant to do.

I feel you can balance Defence and offense just that the Defense has to be equal in capability to the offense or its a complete waste.

Edited by GamerGuy1984

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On 10/12/2017 at 8:15 AM, Vineheart01 said:

heck even the gear meant to pump shields out arent that great (diplo immunity, personal shield)

And yeah i agree that looking at the spoiled characters, villains are much better as usual. Boba is decent but still good, however Luke is ... wtf? If it wasnt tied to character die i could see that being pretty potent but his die SUCKS and i need to pay 2 resources to make it better but as a single action...ugh..

Umm Lukes ability ISNT tied to a Character die. He can increase his or one of his Upgrades dice. Though it is just a single die at a time, so no increasing modifier dice to use with base dice.

Edited by GamerGuy1984

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