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Alberick

I really hate this %&$·"&%

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Im a player and GM of L5R and hate this "beta". The system it's so millennials. This particular game have a perfect system,  you had one job, make a wonderfull and colorfull world and make so many books, and abilities, school paths, but NO, you did this bazofia, this insult of the history of a beautiful game with this stupid idea of a "special dices" WTF dudes, 10d10 its simple, its easy, you don't reinvent the dice.  Your system take out the rol, the imagination and only thing we must do its read the dices. Like a sort of sick fortune teller, i know this is time of changes, but this is so much. You can make a clear system of honor, plays with ninja, and put stuff in the numerous plot holes of 4 edicion, but no, you did us this!!! This millennials game of fortune teller and peace and happiness, come on FFF this is the best you can do?. 
Y eso es todo lo que pondre en ingles, estoy realmente molesto como para escribir en un lenguaje que no es mi lengua madre, la verdad esperaba mucho mas de ustedes FFF, pensé que como compañía grande que son no nos iban a defraudar, pensé que con la encuesta que habían arrojado iban a escuchar a los jugadores, pero no, honestamente, no creo que el juego vaya a pasar de ser la novedad que arruinaron, es una beta, aun pueden dar pie atrás 

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Wow, this dude made an account just to post that!

Grow up baby boy, you do not own L5R, not more than any of us...

And what's this stuff about millenials...

I usually try to stay polite on the web but let me plainly tell you: You are childish.

Not because you don't like this system, its your right, but because you come here b*tching with no argument of any sort.

 

Edited by Nitenman

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Funny. I do Tarot readins from time to time, and they are fun both to me and the querent; there is quite an overlap of skills that are useful for making interesting and accurate reading and for GMing a cool RPG game.

So I will take the comparison to fortune telling as a sign of something cool.

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I kinda find it ironic that everyone is spinning on the special dice yet it is by far (IMO) the best part of the Beta. Successes are obvious, Opportunities are literally Raises bound on the dice, and Strife is easy to ignore (you can do it and lose nothing). The more I roll the dice at home, the more I like it... really, the only problem here is that as of now, there is too few rolled and kept dice. 

Yeah, there are some screwed-up things in the Beta, but the special dice is not one of them. 

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I'm also an old L5R player and GM, I'm 37 years old, played a lot of systems... and so far I'm liking the new system. So:

- If you like the old system, just stick to 4th edition. You have all the material there: All schools, all clans (minor clans included), all spells... with the old system mechanics. FFG had to do a new version, otherwise it just would have been the same game again. And really, I'm no saying this in a bad way, if you like the old system, you're lucky, 'cause you have it all done with 4th Edition.

- The Dice are pretty simple, you obviously haven't even tried them, because you get the hang out of them in less than two minutes. And it's still the old "meet X successes or fail", but with a twist... a narrative twist, so that's good for me. And it doesn't take out the role. If anything, it makes the way far more narrative than it's predecesor. The old system was a crunchy system and pretty abusable by powergamers. This one? Just to have to justify the approach you take makes it more narrative. It's not just "I roll to behave properly and convince him" anymore, now you have to say in which way you're behaving and how you're gonna convince him.

- This is just a beta, you can be sure there will be ninjas in the Final edition.

- Escribir en español sólo te lleva a que el 90% de la gente de este foro no te entienda. Y por cierto, yo sí creo que el juego va a triunfar. Derrotistas como tú ya hubieron muchos cuando FFG sacó el sistema de Star Wars y míralo, tiene un éxito enorme.

Edited by Tabris2k

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I would say that the game goes not far enough for me, it still seems to kept some useless sacred cows around, like the honor, glory, and status tracks and overall makes still just lip-service to narrative design but remains more on the simulationist side of things (just like AEG did and just like FFG did with Star Wars).

They had such a great idea with putting Giri and Ninjo more to the forefront, but then the executions feels lackluster. I think for days now aout starting a topic about this and how this could be solved, but I don't know if FFG would listen or just want to test the ideas they have decided on and thus not change the design towards the game actually becoming more of a narrativist game.

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On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 7:06 PM, Alberick said:

Im a player and GM of L5R and hate this "beta". The system it's so millennials. This particular game have a perfect system,  you had one job, make a wonderfull and colorfull world and make so many books, and abilities, school paths, but NO, you did this bazofia, this insult of the history of a beautiful game with this stupid idea of a "special dices" WTF dudes, 10d10 its simple, its easy, you don't reinvent the dice.  Your system take out the rol, the imagination and only thing we must do its read the dices. Like a sort of sick fortune teller, i know this is time of changes, but this is so much. You can make a clear system of honor, plays with ninja, and put stuff in the numerous plot holes of 4 edicion, but no, you did us this!!! This millennials game of fortune teller and peace and happiness, come on FFF this is the best you can do?. 
Y eso es todo lo que pondre en ingles, estoy realmente molesto como para escribir en un lenguaje que no es mi lengua madre, la verdad esperaba mucho mas de ustedes FFF, pensé que como compañía grande que son no nos iban a defraudar, pensé que con la encuesta que habían arrojado iban a escuchar a los jugadores, pero no, honestamente, no creo que el juego vaya a pasar de ser la novedad que arruinaron, es una beta, aun pueden dar pie atrás 

First, ninja are honorless assassins. They are not honorable warriors.

Second, ok you don't like the dice.

Third, there is nothing stopping you from running a game of blood thirsty assassins going around killing for Koku.

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4 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

I kinda find it ironic that everyone is spinning on the special dice yet it is by far (IMO) the best part of the Beta. Successes are obvious, Opportunities are literally Raises bound on the dice, and Strife is easy to ignore (you can do it and lose nothing). The more I roll the dice at home, the more I like it... really, the only problem here is that as of now, there is too few rolled and kept dice. 

Yeah, there are some screwed-up things in the Beta, but the special dice is not one of them. 

If that's your taste, that's your taste. Other players enjoy betting raises first, especially when it creates that tense moment when you feel like you need to bet big or go home, and a player calls a number of raises that they can't reliably make. The new system takes away all the risk and excitement from raises while also making success way more reliable. It's boring to a lot of people and the dice can be slow when deciding to resolve explosions or not.

Further, what the dice actually represent isn't exactly great. Bonus successes tend to just add +1 to your result, which is almost pointless when you're swinging a tetsubo or otsuchi. It's also incredibly boring that there's no "wasted potential" on each roll.

So that's what happens when you state your opinion as fact.

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You can still tell a story with the beta.  When you say a character has high "intelligence" you are defining that character.  When you roll dice you let chance decide the result of an event.  The new system changes the way we define things - rather than saying "high intelligence" we are saying "high creativity."  Instead of rolling dice with numbers, we are rolling dice with symbols.  It's really very similar.

I know it can be hard to fret against millennials - 4th edition came out in 2010 and it felt entirely too modern for my 1st edition sensibilities.  I think it is important to grow and adapt over time though.

Todavía puedes contar una historia con la versión beta. Cuando usted dice que un personaje tiene una "inteligencia" alta, está definiendo ese personaje. Cuando lanzas dados, dejas que el azar decida el resultado de un evento. El nuevo sistema cambia la forma en que definimos las cosas - en lugar de decir "alta inteligencia" estamos diciendo "alta creatividad". En lugar de rodar dados con números, estamos tirando dados con símbolos. Es muy similar.

Sé que puede ser difícil de preocuparse contra los milenios - la 4 ª edición salió en 2010 y se sentía totalmente demasiado moderno para mi sensibilidades primera edición. Creo que es importante para crecer y adaptarse con el tiempo sin embargo.

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5 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

I kinda find it ironic that everyone is spinning on the special dice yet it is by far (IMO) the best part of the Beta. Successes are obvious, Opportunities are literally Raises bound on the dice, and Strife is easy to ignore (you can do it and lose nothing). The more I roll the dice at home, the more I like it... really, the only problem here is that as of now, there is too few rolled and kept dice. 

Yeah, there are some screwed-up things in the Beta, but the special dice is not one of them. 

Can I just say how genuinely happy I am that you're liking the dice system they came up with for this game? I need more time to really play with it myself before forming my own opinion of it, but the fact that they managed to find a way to please you is awesome, considering the disagreements we've had in the past.

It is a shame that there are people who seem intent on not even trying the system out.

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1 hour ago, Nitenman said:

Weird, I ended up liking the dice system, despite having lots of previous editions bias...

Does that mean it makes me a millennial? Wow, never felt that good, I just shaved off 20 years of my age just due to one comment on a forum.

10/10 would try that rejuvenating again.

Who new Rejuvenating Vapors was a skill trolls could learn? 

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2 hours ago, deraforia said:

Can I just say how genuinely happy I am that you're liking the dice system they came up with for this game?

Hey, you are welcome :)! Roll&Keep fixes pretty much all the problems I have with special dice other than some of the unpredictability issues. And for the others, there is nothing we can't fix!

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3 hours ago, player2636234 said:

If that's your taste, that's your taste. Other players enjoy betting raises first, especially when it creates that tense moment when you feel like you need to bet big or go home, and a player calls a number of raises that they can't reliably make. The new system takes away all the risk and excitement from raises while also making success way more reliable. It's boring to a lot of people and the dice can be slow when deciding to resolve explosions or not.

Further, what the dice actually represent isn't exactly great. Bonus successes tend to just add +1 to your result, which is almost pointless when you're swinging a tetsubo or otsuchi. It's also incredibly boring that there's no "wasted potential" on each roll.

So that's what happens when you state your opinion as fact.

I find most people don't like to raise because the dice are too unpredictable. Only a few people end up seeing the benefit, and usually that benefit is feinting or getting their rolled to an even number for more damage keep.
I don't see how "wasted potential" is meaningful in any way. Rolling a 46 and a 25 are the exact same on a tn 25 when all they wanted to do was hit. And raises are pointless in a contested roll, which ends up being the most common rolls you'd want to raise on anyways. When my players have to ask what the point was to their raise, and I honestly have to shrug, the system isn't so great or rewarding. There's almost no suggested benefits for raises through 4 editions. It's a lame mechanic disguised as gambling.

 

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4 hours ago, player2636234 said:

If that's your taste, that's your taste. Other players enjoy betting raises first, especially when it creates that tense moment when you feel like you need to bet big or go home, and a player calls a number of raises that they can't reliably make. The new system takes away all the risk and excitement from raises while also making success way more reliable. It's boring to a lot of people and the dice can be slow when deciding to resolve explosions or not.

Further, what the dice actually represent isn't exactly great. Bonus successes tend to just add +1 to your result, which is almost pointless when you're swinging a tetsubo or otsuchi. It's also incredibly boring that there's no "wasted potential" on each roll.

The emulation of raises and risk and excitement is still present.  For instance:

Step 1) state intent to GM/formulate dice pool

Step 2) GM tells you how many successes/opportunities you need to roll to achieve this intention.

Step 3) roll (and possibly fail)

 

... the key difference is that it will no longer be all or nothing.  If you fail to achieve the requisite successes and/or opportunities on the roll, you still manage to achieve PART OF your intended action, rather than completely failing in older editions.

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Why are you attempting to explain something to me when it's clear that I and my playgroup prefer actual risk? As I said before it's clearly a matter of taste, and the taste of the new dice system is very different from the old system. It should be expected that fans of the old system don't necessarily mesh well with the new system. I don't understand what you're trying to get across here.

Edited by player2636234

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