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BlindSamurai13

New info about Organize Play, Winter Court and Kotei Serise

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2 minutes ago, BD Flory said:

I don't have a link handy, but I'm sure if you googled it, you could find comments to that effect. A response to SU&SD's review comes to mind (which people promptly proceeded to attempt to shout down).

As to your other question, I think I answered it quite succinctly.

So it is more acceptable for me to be offended. At least that is how I interpreted that. 

If I understand correctly this is because banzai was said during war at one point in time. For that some people view it a negative connotation. Is it not time to move past discomfort? Surely, understanding and enlightenment would truly be a better path for the world?

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8 minutes ago, BD Flory said:

Sorry if I choose not to concede that a proper treatment for historical trauma is "a big dose of getting over it," to random internet comments.

 

At a point we must appeal to reality.  I googled "Is banzai offensive" and these are the results:

2003 discussion about a fox spin-off about a parody of Japanese game shows
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=195963

2009 yahoo answers "is banzai offensive" answer - probably not
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090811204329AAzA6Gy

Another story about the 2003 fox spin-off parody of Japanese game shows
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/949457/posts

Another story about the fox spin-off...
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/entertainment/fox-banzai-angers-asians-article-1.524141

So no - I'd say no one is offended by the word Banzai.  No one even has to get over anything - because there isn't any uproar.

Edited by shosuko

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haha, I forgot about the Banzai show.  It was terrible guilty pleasure.  I still laugh at the "Vertically Challenged Vertical Challenge" where they had two little people have a race to climb a basketball player and plant a flag on top of his head.

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23 minutes ago, BittersweetCocoa said:

Please tell me who IS offended by the word "banzai". I really would like to know who is. I have only heard of people who might be.

I strongly suspect the large Asian market would be offended, especially the Chinese market....in some cases, I would seriously be cautious as to how FFG would/could market a new product (L5R LCG) for the said market that included a chant at the beginning of each play session that had a deep cultural impact toward certain ethnicities whose countries were under Imperial Japanese control during the last world wide war (WWII).... we tend to forget that this product is being shipped and sold all over the world, not just to the US market that by in large is mostly apathetic to the historical concerns of "some people"....  there are tens of millions of other card players around the world, not just those who game in the Western world.

I, for one, would find it beyond troubling if I had to chant some version of Seig Heil if I were playing the latest version of 'Kill the Nazi Zombies!!!' in a tournament setting (closest example I could give) as my wife's side of my family would be horrified to hear words like that being uttered from my mouth. Any replies from the greater gaming community telling me to "uhhh, get over it man, it's only a game set in a fictional universe with Nazi-like influences" or "come on, let's get over the past and just enjoy the game, alright? Besides, Nazis were so long ago that who would care NOW?" would not only be tone deaf but downright moronic as an argument to me and the vast, great majority of those players hailing from Eastern European countries and probably from Western European countries too. 

But please do feel wronged and outraged enough that you aren't allowed to chant 'Banzai!' prior to each card tournament that you will be dropping your support and continued purchases of FFG products in order to make a statement against the latest version of corporate appropriateness gone too far.... if you're this type of person, I don't want to game with you nor have you as a "gaming friend" in my circle of acquaintances, regardless of what your post count is here on this forum or ANY other forum. 

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Fifteen year old news articles and threads on the entertainment industry hardly reflect the state of culture today. In particular, notice that the one actual article you cited noted many more obvious issues with the show. The historical note was hardly necessary. And the one Asian person they bothered to quote said, "it wasn't funny," and "needed to be retooled," without going into detail. A retool could easily include changing the title (or it might not have, in Aki Aleong and his organization's mind, I don't know).

On the other hand, people have claimed to be actually offended on this topic, and claimed to be Chinese. If you want to call one a liar, feel free to go to the Shut Up & Sit Down comments section and do so to their "face." I'm sure they're not alone, but I also won't pretend that one person speaks for an entire nation or diaspora.

Edited by BD Flory

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Just now, C2K said:

For the record, Banzai means 10,000 years, as in "May you live 10,000 years".  How is that offensive?  Unless... life offends you?? 

For the record, Banzai! has and continues to evoke memories of a troubling, brutal and horrific past of many Asian and Pacific Islander nations peoples who had to endure a muderous fascist government for a period of YEARS, and whose effects were still being felt DECADES after Imperial Japan was defeated and whose direct control was broken off from the ruling said nations. 

If you as an adult can't factor this with your reasoning skills, then most approaches to logic and concerns will not effect you or your understanding of the world at large. 

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19 minutes ago, BD Flory said:

On the other hand, people have claimed to be actually offended on this topic, and claimed to be Chinese. If you want to call one a liar, feel free to go to the Shut Up & Sit Down comments section and do so to their "face." I'm sure they're not alone, but I also won't pretend that one person speaks for an entire nation or diaspora.

Person. Singular, if obscenely vocal. And shown by the end of the thread to have a negative reaction to anything Japanese, not just the Utz! Banzai! chant.

Hardly someone who can be said to be a reasonable commentator on the matter. Hardly someone who is likely to buy in to a Samurai-themed game in the first place.

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29 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

I strongly suspect the large Asian market would be offended, especially the Chinese market....in some cases, I would seriously be cautious as to how FFG would/could market a new product (L5R LCG) for the said market that included a chant at the beginning of each play session that had a deep cultural impact toward certain ethnicities whose countries were under Imperial Japanese control during the last world wide war (WWII).... we tend to forget that this product is being shipped and sold all over the world, not just to the US market that by in large is mostly apathetic to the historical concerns of "some people"....  there are tens of millions of other card players around the world, not just those who game in the Western world.

I, for one, would find it beyond troubling if I had to chant some version of Seig Heil if I were playing the latest version of 'Kill the Nazi Zombies!!!' in a tournament setting (closest example I could give) as my wife's side of my family would be horrified to hear words like that being uttered from my mouth. Any replies from the greater gaming community telling me to "uhhh, get over it man, it's only a game set in a fictional universe with Nazi-like influences" or "come on, let's get over the past and just enjoy the game, alright? Besides, Nazis were so long ago that who would care NOW?" would not only be tone deaf but downright moronic as an argument to me and the vast, great majority of those players hailing from Eastern European countries and probably from Western European countries too. 

But please do feel wronged and outraged enough that you aren't allowed to chant 'Banzai!' prior to each card tournament that you will be dropping your support and continued purchases of FFG products in order to make a statement against the latest version of corporate appropriateness gone too far.... if you're this type of person, I don't want to game with you nor have you as a "gaming friend" in my circle of acquaintances, regardless of what your post count is here on this forum or ANY other forum. 

You don't think AEG dealt with the Asian market when they were producing L5R? As far as I'm aware, there was an active community in those territories, and there was no negative backlash to the chat at large events then. Strange that it is suddenly an issue now, following one blog comment thread.

As for the new chant - attend a German event with your family, and join in the "local language" version of the chant. I guaran-****-tee that your family would have issues with it, nearly as bad as if you were chanting "Sieg Heil!"

There were solutions which didn't mean getting rid of something which has been a feature - not a bug - for most of the game's lifespan. The simplest was just to make the chant at TO's discretion, or they could just have removed it entirely. Either would've been better, if they felt there was an issue, than trying to introduce a new chant which will sound worse and pretend all is good.

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7 minutes ago, dysartes said:

Person. Singular, if obscenely vocal. And shown by the end of the thread to have a negative reaction to anything Japanese, not just the Utz! Banzai! chant.

Hardly someone who can be said to be a reasonable commentator on the matter. Hardly someone who is likely to buy in to a Samurai-themed game in the first place.

It's like we've read a different thread. I'll let Mr. Wong answer himself:

"The fact that you think you can tell me what my feelings are or aren't on a particular matter really say a lot about your lack of good faith here."

He repeatedly expresses that he has some wider concerns with the line (art direction being an early mention), but also that he had no problem with Japanese people or Japanese content, and that (surprise!) context matters.

 

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2 minutes ago, dysartes said:

There were solutions which didn't mean getting rid of something which has been a feature - not a bug - for most of the game's lifespan. The simplest was just to make the chant at TO's discretion, or they could just have removed it entirely. Either would've been better, if they felt there was an issue, than trying to introduce a new chant which will sound worse and pretend all is good.

Oh, you mean like this?

"At Kotei Series events and the Winter Court World Championship, event staff and Hatamotos will lead competitors in the Rokugan Chant. Their united voices will thunderously announce the epic battle about to take place, crafting new memories for players and observers alike. Its words will be proclaimed in the language of the hosting territory, in recognition of the diverse global communities that share in the game's history even as it continues to be written.

Please join us as we craft this tradition and others together, beginning with the release of the Core Set for Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game, and for many years to come! For Honor! For Glory! For Rokugan!"

FFG declared what it's doing at FFG's events, and high profile events over which they maintain more control.

They ask -- literally using the word, "please" -- that players join them.

It's almost as if -- GASP -- this is all being twisted out of proportion, and you can do whatever you like at your local store!

 

 

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16 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

For the record, Banzai! has and continues to evoke memories of a troubling, brutal and horrific past of many Asian and Pacific Islander nations peoples who had to endure a muderous fascist government for a period of YEARS, and whose effects were still being felt DECADES after Imperial Japan was defeated and whose direct control was broken off from the ruling said nations. 

If you as an adult can't factor this with your reasoning skills, then most approaches to logic and concerns will not effect you or your understanding of the world at large. 

At some point in history, somebody has conquered and oppressed somebody.  That's human nature. The Chinese, The Greeks, the Romans, the Turks, the Mongols, the Vikings, the Spanish, the Church, the British, the Japanese, the French, the Germans(Prussians), the USA,  and of course, Russia.  We should certainly remove the culture from all of these people  away from the public eye because at one time, they did terrible things to a group of people. 

That's basically the argument here. 

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24 minutes ago, C2K said:

That's basically the argument here. 

No, it's that we should remove a particular battle cry from what should be a positive, welcoming event for everyone.

Given how many times I've said context matters at this point, I very much doubt it's going to sink in. So I'll bow out with some final props to FFG for charting a brave course in the face of a bunch of internet whining. Enjoy the game, everybody!

I've been on the fence, but I finally pulled the trigger today when I saw the core boxes were out of stock at FFG while reading this article.

 

Edited by BD Flory

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Just now, BD Flory said:

No, it's that we should remove a particular battle cry from what should be a positive, welcoming event for everyone.

Given how many times I've said context matters at this point, I very much doubt it's going to sink in. So I'll bow it with some final props to FFG for charting a brave course in the face of a bunch of internet whining. Enjoy the game, everybody!

I've been on the fence, but I finally pulled the trigger today when I saw the core boxes were out of stock at FFG while reading this article.

 

Caving to singular internet whining is hardly charting a brave course in the face of it.

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Just now, BD Flory said:

No, it's that we should remove a particular battle cry from what should be a positive, welcoming event for everyone.

 

 

Just remember, this is a game about "cardboard samurai".  And the samurai battle cry was "Banzai!!". 

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21 minutes ago, dysartes said:

Caving to singular internet whining is hardly charting a brave course in the face of it.

I rather think you know the whining I meant. Context matters. :P

Edited by BD Flory

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6 hours ago, BD Flory said:

No, it's that we should remove a particular battle cry from what should be a positive, welcoming event for everyone.

Given how many times I've said context matters at this point, I very much doubt it's going to sink in. So I'll bow out with some final props to FFG for charting a brave course in the face of a bunch of internet whining. Enjoy the game, everybody!

I've been on the fence, but I finally pulled the trigger today when I saw the core boxes were out of stock at FFG while reading this article.

 

As far as I can tell, it's not a battle cry.  It's something like "Hip, hip" "Hooray", particularly given that the US Marines use Oohrah as a battlecry.

Does that mean that we aren't allowed to use Hip Hip Hooray since it was used as a warcry? 

Edited by Tonbo Karasu
foolishness struck

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50 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

As far as I can tell, it's not a battle cry.  It's something like "Hip, hip" "Hooray", particularly given that the US Marines use Oohrah as a battlecry.

Does that mean that we aren't allowed to use Hip Hip Hooray since it was used as a warcry? 

Nah, that's okay. The hip part is actually an early reference to hipsters (before they were cool) so now the pacifist and military combined references mean we can use it ironically. 

Edited by Zesu Shadaban

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6 hours ago, BD Flory said:

Better get that post count up if you want this to be convincing...

I um ... only made an account here because I was stoked for new5r. As you can see from the account name. I normally do my boardgame posting over at bgg.

I see absolutely not why i would lie about my ffg purchasing here? I just wonder how ffg can think it wise to alienate *certain* (admittedly whining) customers for the sake of one probably non-customer. But i guess THEY are the succesful firm so they presumably know better.

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I am sure we can all agree that good dental hygiene is important and that the samurai of Rokugan should stand as shining examples for our impressionable youth.  With that in mind I propose the following MRP to the highly offensive "Banzai!" card.

Brush Your Teeth!.png

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4 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

As far as I can tell, it's not a battle cry.  It's something like "Hip, hip" "Hooray", particularly given that the US Marines use Oohrah as a battlecry.

Does that mean that we aren't allowed to use Hip Hip Hooray since it was used as a warcry? 

Tonbo Karasu, I have followed your postings and threads with L5R for a very long time. I've enjoyed your objective and subjective take on all topics related to this game and its gaming world. You have always given sound reasoning, believable understanding concerning the interaction of characters and plots in Rokugan, and have always come across as a sage (lack of a better descriptor) regarding L5R in its previous iteration and now with FFG's version. I mean this with all sincerity..... Now, with your post above that I've quoted, I don't know if you are being coy or sincere in your beliefs concerning this topic. 

I dare say that the post that you made (the one I quoted in this post) is the dumbest thing that I have read which has emanated from your handle. 

If somehow anyone, least of someone of your poise and stature in my belief, actually equates a 'Hip Hip Hooray!' with 'Banzai! in the world (and most certainly in the US or some Western country), then that person is intellectually bereft of historical events, general knowledge regarding national and personal views of a good portion of the Asian and Pacific peoples, and (imo) just plain ignorant of views held by others who aren't Western. 

Equating 'Who Us?!' (oohhrahhh) that was (to my knowledge) used by American forces during WWII (such as US Army Rangers, as they were constantly given what seemed to be suicidal missions, one after another, without being afforded any form of rest, etc.) with Hip Hip Hooray and Banzai is really,... I can't type the words that will properly explain my understanding here.... 

Edited by LordBlunt

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Ok they don't want to use the old chant. That is their choice to make and it is fine. But why change it to something that you would here at Nazi rallies? That is something i don't understand. 

Edited by Reaver027

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45 minutes ago, digdoug said:

I am sure we can all agree that good dental hygiene is important and that the samurai of Rokugan should stand as shining examples for our impressionable youth.  With that in mind I propose the following MRP to the highly offensive "Banzai!" card.

Brush Your Teeth!.png

Well, you know. You do lose an honor for overdoing it. :P

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8 hours ago, BittersweetCocoa said:

Please introduce me to a Japanese person you know that is offended by this.

I'm sorry. But did you mean to say "a Japanese person that is offended by Banzai"? or "A Japanese person that is offended by the negative connotation of Banzsi that FFG is perpetuating"

Because if it's the first, than I honestly don't think I can, because that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I would be very surprise if any Japanese is offended by Banzai.

But, if it is the second, weren't yourself commenting on how you don't like how FFG is brushing your heritage under the rug?

Edited by El_Ganso

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