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Considering how FFG is proceeding, does anyone know why this is its own system, instead of a sourcebook for Genesys?  In my mind, it would have made more sense to do that, rather than have a whole new set of dice, and rules.  Especially since L5R's final release will probably be after Genesys.

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Your guess is as good as any other. I imagine they were erring on the side of caution. It is a lot less of a change from old style L5R to the new system than it would have been to go full on Genesys. They may have also decided that the tone and focus was far enough off from your 'traditional' rpg that it waranted its own rules set. L5R has always been a bit more politics and 'role play' heavy by nature than your standard adventure type rpg.

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I for my part am glad they did not went with Genesys, since I think it is is a good system. And I actually like what they did for L5R. I mean especiaccly that it has fewer types of different dice, that it has the negative stuff (strife) on the same dice that you try to get your successes with and thus not as some cosmic force against you, but part of your daily struggle. I like that characters are inherently flawed, that the game mechanics put such an emphasis with strife on the drama, which makes in in my opinion far more narrative of a system than Genesys is, since the internal conflict of the characters is now front and center of the game--as it should be!

I was really worried, but just like with teh card game FFG showed they understand the themes and motifs of the setting and created mechanics to support the core of the game, and not simply carrying some mechanics over because they are considered sacred cows.

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My thought on it is (and I think this is partially supported in the article), L5R is its own beast and as such deserves a unique treatment rather than being a stat-book for Genesys. The Genesys system does sound interesting, but it really comes across as more of a GURPS style book where they provide you the basics for the system, and you provide the world. Since L5R already has its own distinct world, they're willing to put in the resources to customize the RPG experience based on the FFG vision for that world. 

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FFG is currently supporting now 3 engines, with two more they own all the rights to, and another that they don't that they just quit...

We have Star Wars. And the upcoming Genesys flavor of it.

We have End of the World. EotW's mechanics scale the same, so one could use them, instead...

We have L5R.

They just dropped the WRFP2-derived 40K lines due to license end.

They still own the rights to their Twilight Imperium RPG - its system is a basic chaosium clone.

And they have the one in Fireborn, which like EotW, would have been a good fit.

To be honest, I'm seeing a hybridization from Fireborn here...

 

Edited by AK_Aramis

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Role and keep now! Role and keep forever! 

This is nothing less than the further D&Ding of L5R.  Where is the Raise system? I want to cut my opponent's head off.  I want a game in which I can cut my  opponent's head off with out owning a magical weapon.  One in which I can punch someone in the nose and not have to double check the rules on melee combat. Because all the combat rules are the same. Rules where when I roll a die I have more than a hope of luck on one die. But rules that let me know what my odds of success are, and then let me push them. Its the PUSH  that makes it fun the raising of the stakes if you will that add in more fun. A good RPG is like a good baseball game the bases are loaded and your at bat. The clerics are down your the only one up! " I will role one die and hope." Or I will make 3 raises and kill this thing!

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15 hours ago, deathdealerDAN said:

 

Role and keep now! Role and keep forever! 

 

It is roll and keep. Just rolling and keeping non-standard dice.

On 10/6/2017 at 5:38 PM, Edgookin said:

Considering how FFG is proceeding, does anyone know why this is its own system, instead of a sourcebook for Genesys?  In my mind, it would have made more sense to do that, rather than have a whole new set of dice, and rules.  Especially since L5R's final release will probably be after Genesys.

Because the 'roll and keep' thing was a very iconic bit of the older versions of the system, so they've made sort of a hybrid of the two.

15 hours ago, deathdealerDAN said:

 I want to cut my opponent's head off.  I want a game in which I can cut my  opponent's head off with out owning a magical weapon.

That's pretty much exactly what a finishing blow delivering a severity 16 critical (perfectly doable) is.

15 hours ago, deathdealerDAN said:

One in which I can punch someone in the nose and not have to double check the rules on melee combat. Because all the combat rules are the same.

What is it that's different between armed combat and unarmed in the beta? The skill is different, and the weapon's stats, but that's about it.

15 hours ago, deathdealerDAN said:

Rules where when I roll a die I have more than a hope of luck on one die. But rules that let me know what my odds of success are, and then let me push them.

You should pretty much never have to roll only one die in the beta system, but you have a fighting chance of success at much higher TNs than your keep value to ring score alone would suggest. 

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I'd like to say that I am quite impressed with how they apparently managed to create something that at once kept all of the iconic elements, sacrificed all of sacred cows, then hybridized them together to arrive at a money-grabbing scheme enshrining all of the core motifs of the original and the literary genres it sought to evoke...

...but then again, this seem to be case with every new edition of every game.

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11 hours ago, blut_und_glas said:

I'd like to say that I am quite impressed with how they apparently managed to create something that at once kept all of the iconic elements, sacrificed all of sacred cows, then hybridized them together to arrive at a money-grabbing scheme enshrining all of the core motifs of the original and the literary genres it sought to evoke...

...but then again, this seem to be case with every new edition of every game.

You haven't looked at Tunnels & Trolls,  BRP, nor Hero System, have you? BRP, the new editions mechanics are almost identical to the prior ones, save for some options moved in from supplements. Hero System - aside from deleting the figuring in 6th, the mechanics are almost identical to Champions 1st ed... And T&T had problems finding store space, because it never dawned on Rick, Ken, Bear, nor Liz to edition churn to reset the sales orders until 5th ed had been selling for 20 years.

Game companies have 4 common reasons to publish new editions:

  • Because retailers won't buy old stock as readily, even if it's a fresh reprint
  • Because they want to alter the fictional setting for a new and/or wider base
  • Because they want to alter the rules to appease fan angst over some issues
  • Because the designer decided to tinker to correct his vision.

A few uncommon reasons, but not so uncommon as to be rare:

  • Because they just bought the game and want to get a store presence under their label
  • Because they want to reset the copyright date
  • Because a new team is taking over and don't like the old mechanics
  • Because they want to move it over to a house engine

AEG appears to be doing this for multiple of these...

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35 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

You haven't looked at Tunnels & Trolls,  BRP, nor Hero System, have you?

I , for one, can remember the people proclaiming that Hero is over due to decoupling Recovery from STR/CON, and I also remember the vitriol about Cthulhu 7th edition (to pick the probably still most prominent BRP line without going into distant derivate systems).

New editions will lead to a subset (of varying size) of players complaining about the edition change. With the arguments (and the counter-arguments) mostly falling into the categories already so amply in evidence in this very thread.

"They removed X! X was the heart of the game! They added Y! Y is just a fig leaf for forcing me to buy a new book that now does not even have X in it! X now! X forever!"

(And while it does get slightly repetetive seeing this play out again and again and again, I still have to give kudos to @deathdealerDAN for the now!/forever! bit. That was refreshingly bold.)

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Bold I'll give Ya 'da Bold

But lets start slowly. I'm nice I don't want to lose anyone on the bumps. And I only skim the non-sense so Magnus said "but it is roll and keep. " I say ---maybe. But where are my Raises! I make 3 raises and I cut the opponent's head off. Where is that. Where are my stances my FA, Normal, Defencive, and FD. where is my void use. Oh i'm a rokugan trained I have a katana. I get to drop 2 not 1 void point to up my damage. Where is my Ijitsu duel. What up with martial arts its kenjutsu. Geez guy that other company did the hard work for you. A 12 and a 6 sider. Might as well be 1 d20. Do I have to explain bell curve odds to you. Really? It was game mechanics not based on random results but simi-predictable results and the interactive capitalization of results. What did I not like you may ask? I did not like spells to much like that old game. I wanted more raw power with mastery being control. Armor make you harder to hit (no) that's that old-old game again. Best way to do armor is with a save roll. (Now where did i get that idea?)  

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On 10/6/2017 at 11:38 AM, Edgookin said:

Considering how FFG is proceeding, does anyone know why this is its own system, instead of a sourcebook for Genesys?  In my mind, it would have made more sense to do that, rather than have a whole new set of dice, and rules.  Especially since L5R's final release will probably be after Genesys.

I wouldn’t even consider the game if they used Genesys. 

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On 10/29/2017 at 0:36 AM, deathdealerDAN said:

Bold I'll give Ya 'da Bold

But lets start slowly. I'm nice I don't want to lose anyone on the bumps. And I only skim the non-sense so Magnus said "but it is roll and keep. " I say ---maybe. But where are my Raises! I make 3 raises and I cut the opponent's head off. Where is that. Where are my stances my FA, Normal, Defencive, and FD. where is my void use. Oh i'm a rokugan trained I have a katana. I get to drop 2 not 1 void point to up my damage. Where is my Ijitsu duel. What up with martial arts its kenjutsu. Geez guy that other company did the hard work for you. A 12 and a 6 sider. Might as well be 1 d20. Do I have to explain bell curve odds to you. Really? It was game mechanics not based on random results but simi-predictable results and the interactive capitalization of results. What did I not like you may ask? I did not like spells to much like that old game. I wanted more raw power with mastery being control. Armor make you harder to hit (no) that's that old-old game again. Best way to do armor is with a save roll. (Now where did i get that idea?)  

*pushes glasses up nose*

L5R 3e & 4e both specifically call out that called shots do not inflict additional damage and effects are entirely up to the GM.  Tbh I'd say your GM was going easy on you if they let you get insta-kills for a mere 3 raises, but that's not my call.

FA/Attack/Defensive/FD are the elemental stances and now apply to ALL conflicts not just skirmishes.  Conceptually at least, that's alot more interesting.  YMMV.

Any mechanism that involves rolling multiple dice at once for a result will produce a bell-curve of results.  It hasn't gone away, it just looks different and requires you to make interpretative decisions instead of gambling on a single long-shot.  Your wording makes it *sound* like you would prefer the options and choice the new system provides over the old one.  There's nothing interactive about the old method - you set a TN and you got it or you missed it.

But hey, alternatively you could stay angry and ignore the potential advantages of having more than three worthwhile options in a fight.  Your call.

Oh, and I'm sure I could rant for ages about armour in games (particularly rpgs) but let's not go there.  At some point you just have to embrace the particular abstraction that works for the rest of the game.

Edited by GaGrin

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32 minutes ago, GaGrin said:

*pushes glasses up nose*

Much as I think you're on the right track otherwise, there's not enough info there to jump to conclusions about how raises for head cutting was handled. It could be called shot for visual effect, increased damage with specific body parts, or other uses of maneuvers.

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5 minutes ago, BitRunr said:

...there's not enough info there to jump to conclusions...

Perfectly true.  Insinuation retracted.

Edited by GaGrin

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15 hours ago, Edgookin said:

Out of curiosity, why?  We don't know much about Genesys yet.

I don’t like the concept of how the Edge of the Empire system works. I haven’t played it and have no interest in doing so. 

5R5 has some similarities too it, I think. But it has the advantage of only needing 2 custom dice, and it doesn’t require dice to be passed around the table all the time (which wastes time). Reconfiguring dice pools for every roll is a chore that I find boring in other RPGs. 

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16 hours ago, Edgookin said:

Out of curiosity, why?  We don't know much about Genesys yet.

We know the dice types for the 6 standards are the same odds as Star Wars dice, and that they've said it's the same engine.

I'd be less than thrilled to see Genesys applied to L5R myself, as the tone is quite different.

Now, a return of the TI RPG as a genesys setting? Sure.

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10 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

We know the dice types for the 6 standards are the same odds as Star Wars dice, and that they've said it's the same engine.

I'd be less than thrilled to see Genesys applied to L5R myself, as the tone is quite different.

Now, a return of the TI RPG as a genesys setting? Sure.

would love to see A game for this again.

But would have to pass if it was genesys

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On 30.10.2017 at 11:29 PM, Edgookin said:

Out of curiosity, why?  We don't know much about Genesys yet.

Because we know a lot... It is in essense the star wars system. Is uses the same dice but with diffrent non-star warsy symbols.

The star wars round I played with the system was quite tedious and boring, and I do not attribute this to the GM or my fellow players but to the system alone.

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5 hours ago, Yandia said:

Because we know a lot... It is in essense the star wars system. Is uses the same dice but with diffrent non-star warsy symbols.

The star wars round I played with the system was quite tedious and boring, and I do not attribute this to the GM or my fellow players but to the system alone.

I quite like the system in star wars...  for star wars and other super-swingy settings. L5R should be more predictable.

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50 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

I quite like the system in star wars...  for star wars and other super-swingy settings. L5R should be more predictable.

I just wrapped up a campaign in FFG's star wars, and man even at the end as a highly skilled character against storm trooper grunts it still just felt like flipping a coin for results most of the time. I love in L5R knowing exactly how competent my character is.

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24 minutes ago, rcuhljr said:

I just wrapped up a campaign in FFG's star wars, and man even at the end as a highly skilled character against storm trooper grunts it still just felt like flipping a coin for results most of the time. I love in L5R knowing exactly how competent my character is.

My current Star Wars campaign is at the 200-250 XP level. I had a player fail a difficulty 2 (1R 1P) rolling 8 dice (3Y 2G 3B) twice in a row (destiny flip reroll). First time, no successes nor fails. Second, All 4 successes cancelled... including that from the triump. 6 Advantage, tho'. 

Only rolling one side of the equation does reduce the swing quite a bit. Rolling & Keeping does also.

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