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40 minutes ago, shosuko said:

I think just releasing the game with a story re-set is a strong hook to get players back in the game.  Only 7 great clans?  No mantis or spider great clans?  WOW!  Get me back in here!

OK, getting rid of the Spider is a good thing, no arguments there.

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so this kits cost almost as two core sets?

Well if that isnt a moneygrab scheme i dont know what is. For that price you should at least get  equivalent of merchandise you get in core set, not 10 cards and cringe looking necklaces. imagine how may players would turn up if the prizes and promo materials were numbered in hundred cards, tokens and stuff you get in a core set. OP is right, better to give out contetnst of core set to people who show up and put the cards and tokens on display instead of ordering kits.

 

FFG showing their immense promotional and marketing skills which results in awesome games dying and same people playing lcg and cannibalizing their own communities.

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Look, i dont mind necklaces, i dont mind pins and i certainly dont mind full art champs  i would kill for. It just seems that for a price of 2 core sets the amount of product seems comically low. It is not fair and its a bad business model. You can go on with your fanboyism and put funny oneliners in italics, it doesnt change the fact that for that price everyone should get a free  full art champ, bag of pins, a playmat and who knows what else from those cool lookiing trinkets.

 

Its literally better for  a small retailer to buy 2 core sets, put them on display and give  clan cards as 2 card playsets to at least 7 players so they can have  a competitive deck right of the bat with one core.

 

edit :mats for everyone is  figure of speech.

Edited by Dovla

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16 minutes ago, Dovla said:

Look, i dont mind necklaces, i dont mind pins and i certainly dont mind full art champs  i would kill for. It just seems that for a price of 2 core sets the amount of product seems comically low. It is not fair and its a bad business model. You can go on with your fanboyism and put funny oneliners in italics, it doesnt change the fact that for that price everyone should get a free  full art champ, bag of pins, a playmat and who knows what else from those cool lookiing trinkets.

 

Its literally better for  a retailer to buy 2 core sets, put them on display and give  clan cards as 2 card playsets to at least 7 players so they can have  a competitive deck right of the bat with one core.

It's not really fair to compare the cost-per-unit of mass-producing the Core sets with that of producing a much more limited run.  

Also, doesn't a playmat cost almost as much as a Core?  So for that price, two people should get playmats, and everyone else should get pretty much nothing?

EDIT:  I was thinking of the larger X-Wing mats.  So, four people could get L5R mats.  Still far short of "mats for everyone", even without any other loot.

Edited by JJ48

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So to be clear here...the Launch Program Kit contains prize support for THREE events, and is designed to lead into L5R's organized play program which will launch in the New Year. As someone who has been involved in OP for many games for over twenty years, I love how this provides a path from just casual get-togethers to more structured play and finally into a three-round tournament. It rewards attendees with different swag at each event, if they're interested. It offers a way to get seriously cool full bleeds. It's an elegant, low-pressure, rewarding scheme. Good for FFG.

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I understand it's not the case everywhere, but in my area the going rate for participating in these events (and similar OP events for other games) is $5. Not an unreasonable amount for the included swag (assuming participation doesn't exceed supply). So say the store hits the target number of 12 players, that's $60 per event, or $180 for all 3 events from one kit. Players are paying a reasonable fee for swag, the store makes a profit, and FFG has a structured lead-in to the 2018 OP season. Seems like a win all around to me. 

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Many stores are offering free entry if you purchased a core set from them, at least for the first event, which is more than reasonable and a fantastic introduction to the game and to organized play.

I honestly don't get the negativity or the dismissive comments...it's clear a significant amount of thought went into this program, and it's something that should be commended, not insulted.

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The program is great. Its organized superbly, its super flavorful, its friendly, the guidelines are great, the printable posters also. Its the best launch ideas and program i've seen yet for  game.

I'm saying that for almost 80$ you should get more that 12 pins, 12 necklaces, 21 cards of champs and stickers. They are worth few cents all. And for that price i think you can secure a spectacular launch prizes. And thats why i think its a bad business model.

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4 hours ago, Dovla said:

The program is great. Its organized superbly, its super flavorful, its friendly, the guidelines are great, the printable posters also. Its the best launch ideas and program i've seen yet for  game.

I'm saying that for almost 80$ you should get more that 12 pins, 12 necklaces, 21 cards of champs and stickers. They are worth few cents all. And for that price i think you can secure a spectacular launch prizes. And thats why i think its a bad business model.

Let me put on my analyst hat for a second, because unlike some people in here I actually design and refine business models.

Consider for a moment that your pricing of a "few cents" doesnt take into account ANY of the various prices for research and development of the game, all the playtesters, the costs spent on advertising and print runs, setting up or working through various levels of infrastructure to get these things out to the various parts of the world, as well as the end game of space on shelves and bums on seats.

Tl:dr; lots of costs need to be frontloaded, lots of money borrowed, lots of risk accepted and lots of people paid. I don't think business models are as simple as you think they are sir.

Edited by Daigotsu Steve

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So I was foolish and arrived late to my local event. Store had higher turnout than anticipated, and they were already out of lanyards. Still paid my $5, sat down and played, missed out on a 1 in 3 chance of getting a fullbleed champ card. No regrets, except not arriving earlier like I knew I should have. 

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I want lanyards, badges, extended art cards and pins.  The lanyards especially are a pretty cool piece of swag for the launch event. I have tons of gaming related pins on my backpack.  If you don't like pins and extended/alt art cards then I think you are going to be pretty disappointed by FFG OP Union.  They usually just hand out "badges of honor" for winning.  This is actually so far the best FFG OP support we've ever seen.  I can't speak better of the plan.  I hope it works out in the long run. 

Edited by phillos

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26 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Wait, y'all got pins?? I went to three launch events, and I didn't see any pins! And I only ended up with ONE full-art Alty. Pretty disappointing. So far, AEG was way better in participation/prize support.

the pin is not given out at the first event.  It's the second or third event (I can't remember which).  The launch kit covers all three events.  At actual store champ or regionals-like tournaments to give you a feel for what you get I've received on average a play set of alt art cards (a participation prize), a play mat or set of acrylic tokens (a top cut prize) and usually a trophy for winning, but I think they just give out plaques now.  Sometimes you get a different alt art card for winning.  At higher level tournaments it usually better than that (nationals or worlds). 

In this OP structure it seems the big prize is winning Hatamoto status at the higher level tournaments. 

Edited by phillos

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2 minutes ago, phillos said:

the pin is not given out at the first event.  It's the second or third event (I can't remember which).  The launch kit covers all three events.

Technically, yes. But some stores are apparently only doing the first event and giving out everything now instead of over 3 events. Either that or they're planning something else for prize support for the other events. 

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or the TO was confused on what they were suppose to do.  Very possible since the TO's are usually just enthusiastic players who approached the store about running the event.  Also technically they are only required to hand out 1 alt art card per attendee, but in the OP tournaments I've attended (where the box covers 1 event) that's all up to the TO and usually they divide the box contents up among the participants (thus if it was a lightly attended event you can get a full playset).

FFG doesn't do money prizes or anything like that for prize support in case anyone was wondering about that.  It's all usually alt arts, tokens, or play mats with unique art.  Stuff like that.  Sometimes the rarer stuff can sell for quite a bit though if that sort of thing interests you.  The prize support stuff is probably the only thing about LCGs that can potentially appreciate in value since the non participation stuff can be quite rare.  I've never sold any of my stuff, but I can see how that would he attractive to some people.

Edited by phillos

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20 hours ago, Dovla said:

Look, i dont mind necklaces, i dont mind pins and i certainly dont mind full art champs  i would kill for. It just seems that for a price of 2 core sets the amount of product seems comically low. It is not fair and its a bad business model. You can go on with your fanboyism and put funny oneliners in italics, it doesnt change the fact that for that price everyone should get a free  full art champ, bag of pins, a playmat and who knows what else from those cool lookiing trinkets.

 

Its literally better for  a small retailer to buy 2 core sets, put them on display and give  clan cards as 2 card playsets to at least 7 players so they can have  a competitive deck right of the bat with one core.

 

edit :mats for everyone is  figure of speech.

Something that kinda confuses me about the prize support complaints is the cost of the kit...  Did you buy the promo kit?  Were you TRYING to buy one?  What makes the cost of the kit so much?

The store I went to (and from what I've heard, most stores are doing this) gave YOU free entry if you bought a core from them, or charged $5 bucks.  If you were going to buy a core anyway, and you bought it from that store then they are already making their money back.  The store I went to will be the place I buy all of my dynasty packs from, they are also where I buy my Arkham and LotR packs from.  I buy sleeves there, and order through them whenever possible.  I'm certain that if you asked that store owner he would have said "It's part of doing business."

So I get that you might gripe about the quality of the stuff.  There was no epic tier prize for taking first place, and everyone didn't get a full set of full art champions (many may not have even got a champion) and that is fine!  Gripe about that!  But why would you gripe about the cost of the kit, when the store buys it...  It could be FREE or cost $1000 if you didn't buy it, why does that part matter?

idk, maybe you are a store owner - then I guess you could gripe about the cost - but then you might also want to consider what your sales might be like if you ignore a launch event for a VERY popular new game.  If your store told me they weren't going to get in on all of the awesome promo stuff that I (and many other gamers) really enjoy, I'd find a store that was...  and that's money out of your pocket.

Edited by shosuko

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In my area the launch events were either free to attend or the entry fee was refunded as store credit.  The kits are about getting people into the stores to build community and encourage players to buy from their stores and not just the cheapest online option.  In the past my experience in my area is LCG OP events like tournaments do have entry fees, but they are again either refunded as in store credit or it's pretty nominal like $5 per player.  That's all completely up to the TO and the store. 

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