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Nitenman

Using Ring variety

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what prevents a player to always revert to the same ring for a type of action.

I'm only talking about mechanics here, don't answer with stuff about RP, or diversifying. I get these points already. Diversity adds flavor and makes RP more pleasant. But there are some one-dimensional charas.

like, I'm a brash daredevil Matsu,I only use the fire approach for striking and in most things I do.

Even with descriptions, savvy players will use the same kind of description to get a "template" mechanical effect.

 

 

 

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Mechanically, the ring you choose limits what you can spend your Opportunity on. (See Table 1-2 on Page 18). Advantages and Disadvantages are triggered based on the Ring you use. Critical Hit penalties are determined by what ring you use, etc etc.

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Each skill group has a different use for each Ring. If you're trying to negotiate with an angry merchant, using Fire will only escalate the situation. If you want to do anything at all with an existing work, Fire is useless. A Scholar can use Fire to come up with new theories, but not to gather the raw data that those theories are based on. And so on and so forth. You certainly can play a bombastic madman who uses Fire for every check*, but you'll be noticeably deficient compared to your more well-rounded compatriots.

*Though you'll still have other approaches open--You get five Ring increases in chargen, and can't raise a Ring above rank three, so you can't get more unbalanced than Fire 3, everything else 2. After chargen, you need Void to raise your Rings in an imbalanced manner. So, you can us Fire for everything, but there's little mechanical reason to do so.

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13 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Because 3 is the maximum Ring rating at the start I think most characters will have diversity in a few areas, perhaps a couple of 3's and a 2.

I guess I missed that, could some one point me to the page where this is stated?

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30 minutes ago, Drudenfusz said:

I guess I missed that, could some one point me to the page where this is stated?

Page 26, middle of the left column.

 

34 minutes ago, Nitenman said:

kinda make sense. Cheers folks. I'm working hard on trying to "forget" previous edition bias in order to adapt and understand and the hardest is maybe to change from the specific traits mindset to the new more "abstract" approach mindset.

 

A very important lesson for all FFG RPG's!

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On 10/5/2017 at 2:49 AM, Richardbuxton said:

Choosing an inappropriate but higher Ring could increase the TN for the check.

Because 3 is the maximum Ring rating at the start I think most characters will have diversity in a few areas, perhaps a couple of 3's and a 2.

Hmm. This makes me think I missed something. I've been making my first character today and he's got one 3 and one 2. I'm at a loss for how you would up with multiple 3's and 2. Is there some place I missed where you get to add extra points somewhere?

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27 minutes ago, Mobiusllls said:

Clan + School + Family + how does your character stand out in the school. An Akodo bushi ends up with 3 Water 3 Earth 2 something you choose.

Ah, I missed the stand out in school bit. Darn you tiny font! Thank you for the information!

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Critical Injuries. When you are hit, you roll for the Fitness based on your Stance to reduce severity of the Crit. The Critical Injury suffered also is determined by YOUR stance. The 5 and higher Crits penalize your Martial Arts using that Ring by increasing the TN of the roll by 2, so not switching stance after being Critted means you need to Attack vs TN 4 and your Fitness rolls are at TN 3. Additionally, if you get Critted again in the same Stance, the wound will upgrade and you will also suffer a Bleeding condition.

 

So if you don't want to get maimed for life, you should switch your Stances. 

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24 minutes ago, WHW said:

Critical Injuries. When you are hit, you roll for the Fitness based on your Stance to reduce severity of the Crit. The Critical Injury suffered also is determined by YOUR stance. The 5 and higher Crits penalize your Martial Arts using that Ring by increasing the TN of the roll by 2, so not switching stance after being Critted means you need to Attack vs TN 4 and your Fitness rolls are at TN 3. Additionally, if you get Critted again in the same Stance, the wound will upgrade and you will also suffer a Bleeding condition.

 

So if you don't want to get maimed for life, you should switch your Stances. 

It really forces a diverse character. Given all characters can utilise 2 different Technique types beyond Rituals there's a lot of reasons to be broadly skilled.

I really like that there's no discount on Ring upgrades too. Your free to choose whatever suits you without feeling pigeon holed.

There's obviously a downside to all this with the issue of every character ending up as vanilla flavoured... time will tell 

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On 10/5/2017 at 5:46 PM, rsdockery said:

Each skill group has a different use for each Ring. If you're trying to negotiate with an angry merchant, using Fire will only escalate the situation. If you want to do anything at all with an existing work, Fire is useless. A Scholar can use Fire to come up with new theories, but not to gather the raw data that those theories are based on. And so on and so forth. You certainly can play a bombastic madman who uses Fire for every check*, but you'll be noticeably deficient compared to your more well-rounded compatriots.

*Though you'll still have other approaches open--You get five Ring increases in chargen, and can't raise a Ring above rank three, so you can't get more unbalanced than Fire 3, everything else 2. After chargen, you need Void to raise your Rings in an imbalanced manner. So, you can us Fire for everything, but there's little mechanical reason to do so.

I am having a really hard time trying to figure out when to use which ring when it comes to combat. With other skills it seems a little more obvious, but for melee it really seems like you could use any ring in pretty much any situation.

Imagine you are fighting a duel in an open plain, all rings are fair game and at a purely mechanical level I don't see why a PC won't use his highest ring for every single Melee roll. 

I'm not trying to complain, I am just trying to understand better.

Would any of these not be possible?

• Withstand Approach (Earth Ring): Fighting defensively

• Shift Approach (Water Ring): Fighting reactively

• Overwhelm Approach (Fire Ring): Fighting aggressively,

• Feint Approach (Air Ring): Fighting subtly

(Void Ring): Fighting instinctively or without regard for your life

 

 

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The reason for not wanting to overstay in a Stance is that the stance you are using dictates where the crits land, and getting critted twice in the same place upgrades the crit severly, leaving you a premanent injury. Additionally, first injury bestows +2 TN difficulty upgrade to all your combat related checks. 

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On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:07 PM, RokoganiGM said:

Imagine you are fighting a duel in an open plain, all rings are fair game and at a purely mechanical level I don't see why a PC won't use his highest ring for every single Melee roll. 

Imagine this as an example:

  • Why would I not just use Earth for everything?
    • If I set earth stance, I can only get rid of strife by spending opportunity once per turn, for 2 strife. Between strife I roll plus strife inflicted on me by a fire-focused opponent (one opportunity passes me 2 strife)
    • I can only use (looking at basic low-level kata) striking-as-earth. Which lets me rack up a ridiculous armour level but does naff all to prevent me being hit; so if I'm at risk of suffering stuff like heartpiercing strike or strike with no thought (which jump straight to a critical and ignore armour) then it'll not help at all
    • As noted, Injured Torso critical messes with your ability to do [earth] checks, so switching stance is better. Plus, not switching makes the next critical much worse, because if you don't shift stance, you get Fractured Spine instead of Injured Arm.

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23 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

if I'm at risk of suffering stuff like heartpiercing strike or strike with no thought (which jump straight to a critical and ignore armour) then it'll not help at all

Y'know, if you are at risk of suffering stuff like Heartpiercing Strike or Strike with No Thought then you are already in a league where none of this matters. 

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I think diversity happens naturally - even for a mechanically inclined player - than in the previous system.  Even in narrow use, you will typically have at least 2-3 ways you want to do something.  Do you want to close great distance and attack your target?  Do you want to lash out for extra damage?  Do you want to consider the fights you've been through to improve your technique?  These will all use different rings to accomplish a simple goal of being an aggressive and skilled fighter.

Another way this game promotes a more well rounded character is that your resilience, composure, focus, and vigilance are all made up of 2 stats.  If you want to be a tanky character it is easier to have both your earth and water at 3 than to leave your water at just 1-2 and get your earth up to 4-5.

I think most characters will have 2 rings that basically rank up in turn, keeping stats even, and there will be at least 1 other ring they will want decently developed.  There may only be 1 ring actually neglected favoring how the character wants to be strong - and that is okay.  A character shouldn't have to be the same in all stats, it just needs to avoid the issue of having just 1 stat that matters.

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1 minute ago, shosuko said:

II think most characters will have 2 rings that basically rank up in turn, keeping stats even, and there will be at least 1 other ring they will want decently developed.  There may only be 1 ring actually neglected favoring how the character wants to be strong - and that is okay.  A character shouldn't have to be the same in all stats, it just needs to avoid the issue of having just 1 stat that matters.

Neglecting a Ring is impossible unless you go heavy on Void. Ring advancements are restricted by the lowest Ring (you can't raise a Ring above lowest Ring + Void Ring), so if one of your Rings remain low, then you can't advance a lot with the others either. 

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Best min maxing scenario. is coming out of chargen with void 3. So you have three rings at 2 (which is average.) and your favorite ring at 5.  Specialized yeah, but not ridiculous as a person since you are at most average in stuff instead of straight incompetent.

most common min maxing scenario that people can do if they want is. Best ring at five, second ring at 3, void ring at 3. and the rest at 2.

But i honestly dont think that a balanced character wouldnt be good. you do gain lots of options with more rings in this game.

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