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Currently, are two cores still recommended?

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I'm a relatively casual player and I definitely recommend 2 core sets if you're playing with 4 players. I recently finished playing through a 4 player base campaign, and even with the Dunwich box and practically all of the Dunwich mythos packs (just waiting for Lost in Time and Space to become available) I found it very difficult to build decent decks. I'm planning to play through the Dunwich campaign once I finally get my hands on the last mythos pack, and definitely picking up another core to go along with it.

Edited by awesomeclaw

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11 hours ago, ppsantos said:

It is this 'notion' that having 2 Core Sets is better that makes me stay away from this game.  I already have LOTR lcg, which is a money sink, for me.  I'll just enjoy that one.

Honestly, it's mostly just needed if you want to play with people who don't have their own set.

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11 hours ago, ppsantos said:

It is this 'notion' that having 2 Core Sets is better that makes me stay away from this game.  I already have LOTR lcg, which is a money sink, for me.  I'll just enjoy that one.

As opposed to LOTR which requires 3? Or, put another way, $30 for a third copy of Unexpected Courage.

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6 hours ago, Network57 said:

As opposed to LOTR which requires 3? Or, put another way, $30 for a third copy of Unexpected Courage.

I've always encouraged proxying that card rather thank sinking 30 dollars on it. There's plenty of player cards you have in 6 copies once you own 2 cores: make a copy of unexpected courage and sleeve it with an unused player card, and it's done, no way you can see it's coming because the back will be an original card

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54 minutes ago, Julia said:

I've always encouraged proxying that card rather thank sinking 30 dollars on it. There's plenty of player cards you have in 6 copies once you own 2 cores: make a copy of unexpected courage and sleeve it with an unused player card, and it's done, no way you can see it's coming because the back will be an original card

I agree with that - I definitely proxy that 3rd Brok Ironfist ;)

But in this case you're still buying 2 Cores, which is the same as Arkham.

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On 23/12/2017 at 9:05 AM, Network57 said:

As opposed to LOTR which requires 3? Or, put another way, $30 for a third copy of Unexpected Courage.

I only have one LOTR Core Set and I bought it long before all of these 'gotta have 2 or 3 Cores" posts came out.  Once I read them, they left an ugly taste in my mouth and wondered why I lose quests: was it due to bad play and suboptimal deck build of the cards that I own or was it because I didn't splurge on 2 or 3 Cores? And I couldn't bring myself to proxy cards.

Anyway, I just didn't want to re-experience that again, if I were to dive into AH LCG game.

Edited by ppsantos

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Just my personal experiance but these games are optimized for single core sets (both LOTR and Arkham) to provide a challenging experiance.  Getting a 2nd set just makes the game "easier", but does nothing to make it a better game so the only logic to getting a 2nd or 3rd core set is if you want to make the game easier or your hosting more than 2 players.

The core argument for getting 2nd or 3rd core sets is "deck building", which stands to reason if you are competative but if your just playing at home with your buddy.  In fact I would recommend getting both 1 core set of Arkham and 1 set of LoTr rather than 2 core sets of the same game..  2 unique, fun games is way better than 1 duplicate.  Even if you have the money, your far better off getting other games like Game of Thrones, Stars Wars or whatever than another core set of the same game.

Just my two cents, but I think this 2-3 core set thing is severe overkill.

 

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19 minutes ago, BigKahuna said:

Just my personal experiance but these games are optimized for single core sets (both LOTR and Arkham) to provide a challenging experiance.  Getting a 2nd set just makes the game "easier", but does nothing to make it a better game so the only logic to getting a 2nd or 3rd core set is if you want to make the game easier or your hosting more than 2 players.

The core argument for getting 2nd or 3rd core sets is "deck building", which stands to reason if you are competative but if your just playing at home with your buddy.  In fact I would recommend getting both 1 core set of Arkham and 1 set of LoTr rather than 2 core sets of the same game..  2 unique, fun games is way better than 1 duplicate.  Even if you have the money, your far better off getting other games like Game of Thrones, Stars Wars or whatever than another core set of the same game.

Just my two cents, but I think this 2-3 core set thing is severe overkill.

 

You are mistaken about how the games are designed. Playtest assumes decks built with a full playset of cards (true for both cooperative and competitive games). Core sets have single cards is to provide a diverse discovery experience at a reasonable price, but packs and boxes have full playsets (the target audience for core sets is wider than for other products; according to FFG, many players don't buy anything but a core set for a pair or group of players). Also, players find their fun in different ways; I wouldn't have fun playing decks full of single cards.

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1 hour ago, Khudzlin said:

You are mistaken about how the games are designed. Playtest assumes decks built with a full playset of cards (true for both cooperative and competitive games). Core sets have single cards is to provide a diverse discovery experience at a reasonable price, but packs and boxes have full playsets (the target audience for core sets is wider than for other products; according to FFG, many players don't buy anything but a core set for a pair or group of players). Also, players find their fun in different ways; I wouldn't have fun playing decks full of single cards.

Well to reach his own, but my point wasn't about what was fun or not, but how the game is optimized.  The game IS considerably less challenging when you have 3 of every power card in the game and you have no limits to the power decks you can build.    Buying 3 core sets and constructing power decks that railroad all quests with ease is about the equivilant of a pay to win PC game.  I get that people like winning, winning is obviously fun, I just don't see how anyone finds any satisfaction in it.   Winning within the confines of the designed challenge, that's rewarding, winning becuase you bought 3 core sets and have 3 copies of Unexpected Courage... meh.. if its fun for you buy all means... but don't be claiming that you "beat it".. you didn't, you bought it.

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1 hour ago, BigKahuna said:

Well to reach his own, but my point wasn't about what was fun or not, but how the game is optimized.  The game IS considerably less challenging when you have 3 of every power card in the game and you have no limits to the power decks you can build.    Buying 3 core sets and constructing power decks that railroad all quests with ease is about the equivilant of a pay to win PC game.  I get that people like winning, winning is obviously fun, I just don't see how anyone finds any satisfaction in it.   Winning within the confines of the designed challenge, that's rewarding, winning becuase you bought 3 core sets and have 3 copies of Unexpected Courage... meh.. if its fun for you buy all means... but don't be claiming that you "beat it".. you didn't, you bought it.

  Just to note, by the rules you're limited to 2 copies of any card by title, not 3. So if you have 3 copies of Unexpected Courage, you're not playing by the rules as written.

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18 minutes ago, agarrett said:

  Just to note, by the rules you're limited to 2 copies of any card by title, not 3. So if you have 3 copies of Unexpected Courage, you're not playing by the rules as written.

Unless hes talking LOTR unexpected courage, in which case 3 copies is legal and needs 3 core sets.

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5 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

Well to reach his own, but my point wasn't about what was fun or not, but how the game is optimized.

Which I addressed first in my post. The games are designed and tested with full playsets in mind (2 cores for Arkham and 3 for LotR): this is how thay are optimized.

I'm way more familiar with Arkham (since it's the one I play regularly), but I know people who are/were heavily invested in LotR and I've heard some harsh criticism about LotR's power levels (the designer not caring about publishing overpowered cards because it's a coop game, for instance). Arkham doesn't have that problem: the designer cares about that issue and the game has difficulty levels right from the start.

@agarrett I assume the same as @CaffeineAddict. By the way, A Test of Will is another card that exists in both games.

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I bought 4 core sets, 2 of Dunwich and 1 of everything else.  I am supply all the cards for a 4 player game.

I regret buying a second copy of Dunwich but have no regrets about the 4 core sets.

That's me other people may want/like other stuff.

I find the game is plenty hard with decks built with multiple copies of the core and I play normal difficulty.  

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16 hours ago, Meretrix said:

There is no reason not to have 2 cores unless you can't afford it.

There are reasons that are not financial. Not very good reasons, but reasons. I honestly just can't be bothered with dealing with all the extra scenario cards. I understand that there are things I could do with them (sleeving them for custom scenarios, pre-building core scenarios, or throwing them out [never!]), but I just can't be bothered and a single core is fine. I probably won't buy another set myself, but if someone gifted me one, I wouldn't say no.

I honestly feel like I could just create a proxy set of player cards with almost as much work as it would take for me to figure out and handle the extra cards from a core that I don't want. I don't want them taking up space in my storage, and I don't want to throw them away. Silly or not, that's just how it is.

Edited by Soakman

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So what were those reasons? Dealing with any extra cards? :huh:  They sit in a small box in my closet if I need an extra card for a replacement or to proxy something.

Edited by Meretrix

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10 hours ago, Meretrix said:

So what were those reasons? Dealing with any extra cards? :huh:  They sit in a small box in my closet if I need an extra card for a replacement or to proxy something.

Just feels like it's taking space that I could otherwise use for something else. And as mentioned above, I just have issue with purchasing components for reasons of waste. Not that I don't produce my own waste and I'm not a super green person, but I don't like the idea of using resources (paper/ink) on unnecessary components for games because it kind of feels like an inefficient means to an end. I know it is a compromise between pricing and minimum playability, but it just feels a bit like wasteful design. But people who don't read the books feel the same about the books that come with replacement cards (which I support). Those people are choosing not to use the book just as I am choosing not to use the extra cards from a core set (the only difference is, of course, that I already have a set of the scenario cards).

Again, i didn't say that they are good reasons, but they're enough reason for me not to bother when I only need one core the majority of the time since I play with someone who has 2 regularly.

Edited by Soakman

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3 hours ago, Soakman said:

Just feels like it's taking space that I could otherwise use for something else. And as mentioned above, I just have issue with purchasing components for reasons of waste. Not that I don't produce my own waste and I'm not a super green person, but I don't like the idea of using resources (paper/ink) on unnecessary components for games because it kind of feels like an inefficient means to an end. I know it is a compromise between pricing and minimum playability, but it just feels a bit like wasteful design. But people who don't read the books feel the same about the books that come with replacement cards (which I support). Those people are choosing not to use the book just as I am choosing not to use the extra cards from a core set (the only difference is, of course, that I already have a set of the scenario cards).

Again, i didn't say that they are good reasons, but they're enough reason for me not to bother when I only need one core the majority of the time since I play with someone who has 2 regularly.

Yup, Blame FFG for their extremely wasteful release model. They should have sold core booster packs with just investigator cards included.

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2 hours ago, Meretrix said:

Yup, Blame FFG for their extremely wasteful release model. They should have sold core booster packs with just investigator cards included.

The reasons they don't do this have been outlined numerous times and don't bear repeating. Suffice it to say they don't owe you a release model that suits your needs over those of their distributors and their budget.

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33 minutes ago, Network57 said:

The reasons they don't do this have been outlined numerous times and don't bear repeating. Suffice it to say they don't owe you a release model that suits your needs over those of their distributors and their budget.

I never said the owed me anything. A couple posts up I said there is no reason not to buy two cores. It's still wasteful.

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To be perfectly honest, two core sets will always be necessary to maintain full Deckbuilding options.  All player cards, outside of the Neutral Class, are single copies.  The Rules Reference book says that, with the exception of "exceptional" cards which you only maintain one copy in your decks, you can have up to two copies of a single card title.  Meaning if you were to build a Roland deck with two Shotguns, you need a second core set.

 

As of now, it is no longer crucial to have a second core set.  I would imagine by the end of the 3rd cycle, there would be enough cards in the collection that you could build a deck without a single card from the core set, basic weakness excluded.

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Hey now folks, I didn't say that I had a problem with their release model in general. You said there were no reasons at this point not to have 2 cores if you play a lot. There are reasons. I play a lot. I love the game. I still won't buy 2 cores for the reasons I listed. I also did not say FFG "owed" me anything.  I just prefer not to have extra junk in both my house and my limited gaming area, and I also don't like the idea of throwing away printed materials just because I don't want them. I'm not trying to pick a fight; I'm just stating my reasons for the record of people who seemed to be requesting reasons for not having 2 cores. That is all. :mellow:

Edited by Soakman

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1 hour ago, Soakman said:

Hey now folks, I didn't say that I had a problem with their release model in general. You said there were no reasons at this point not to have 2 cores if you play a lot. There are reasons. I play a lot. I love the game. I still won't buy 2 cores for the reasons I listed. I also did not say FFG "owed" me anything.  I just prefer not to have extra junk in both my house and my limited gaming area, and I also don't like the idea of throwing away printed materials just because I don't want them. I'm not trying to pick a fight; I'm just stating my reasons for the record of people who seemed to be requesting reasons for not having 2 cores. That is all. :mellow:

My comment wasn't meant for you.

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