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Celestial Lizards

Epic Ships Ranked!

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What?

 

CR-90 is the best, followed by the Raider. because you can get the CR-90 to ps12 with +1 attack and 2 focus tokens due to support ships. Raider can get to ps8 and two rerolls on all secondaries, and 1 reroll on two primary shots.

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4 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

What?

 

CR-90 is the best, followed by the Raider. because you can get the CR-90 to ps12 with +1 attack and 2 focus tokens due to support ships. Raider can get to ps8 and two rerolls on all secondaries, and 1 reroll on two primary shots.

Um how exactly? 

Focus tokens cannot go on epic ships, and cannot get free actions. Granted, stuff like Gunnery Team is amazing and I always use it. 

And how would you increase the PS?

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1 minute ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Um how exactly? 

Focus tokens cannot go on epic ships, and cannot get free actions. Granted, stuff like Gunnery Team is amazing and I always use it. 

And how would you increase the PS?

Roark, Esege, and Jan Ors. Should have the first two in your list as least.

 

Raider has Jonus and Howl.

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6 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Roark, Esege, and Jan Ors. Should have the first two in your list as least.

 

Raider has Jonus and Howl.

I think you mean Kyle Katan, Jan Ors doesn't pass focus. Only increase attack by 1 die.

10 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Um how exactly? 

Focus tokens cannot go on epic ships, and cannot get free actions. Granted, stuff like Gunnery Team is amazing and I always use it. 

And how would you increase the PS?

Well that is still in debate in which there needs to be an FAQ official ruling. The trick is that Epic ships in theory could use the pilot ability for Esege and use the focus tokens on the K-wing. Since the tokens don't go to the huge ship which would be immediately discarded that is the way for the CR-90 to spend a focus token. However it is still in debate as it says in the huge ship rules huge ship cannot spend focus or evade tokens. Apparently there was an email from FFG that said a huge ship could spend Esege's focus but the counter argument is that the email didn't specifically say that the CR-90 could use that focus token to modify dice (essentially spending tokens only modifies 0 dice). 

So in hte mean time, how about that minefield mapper with extra munitions? 

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Just now, Marinealver said:

I think you mean Kyle Katan, Jan Ors doesn't pass focus. Only increase attack by 1 die.

Well that is still in debate in which there needs to be an FAQ official ruling. The trick is that Epic ships in theory could use the pilot ability for Esege and use the focus tokens on the K-wing. Since the tokens don't go to the huge ship which would be immediately discarded that is the way for the CR-90 to spend a focus token. However it is still in debate as it says in the huge ship rules huge ship cannot spend focus or evade tokens. Apparently there was an email from FFG that said a huge ship could spend Esege's focus but the counter argument is that the email didn't specifically say that the CR-90 could use that focus token to modify dice (essentially spending tokens only modifies 0 dice). 

So in hte mean time, how about that minefield mapper with extra munitions? 

 

No, I meant who I meant. You can't pass focus tokens to Epic ships.

 

Roark to bump to ps12, Esege has RecSpec so CR-90 can use two focus tokens (Epic ships cant be assigned focus tokens, they can still use Esege's tokens.) Jan Ors is around, if you have the points for her, to boost one attack up, and a secondary Swarm Tactics ship in case Roark goes down.

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I get the feeling that the GR-75 is so low on the list simply because it can't shoot. It's an amazing ship, often making more of an impact point-for-point than the CR90. I often take a Gozanti without  weapons, and it's AMAZING. But then I don't know where else to put it on the list. I've played a lot of Epic, and all the huge ships are fantastic.

Edited by Parakitor

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2 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I get the feeling that the GR-75 is so low on the list simply because it can't shoot. It's an amazing ship, often making more of an impact point-for-point than the CR90. I often take a Gozanti without  weapons, and it's AMAZING. But then I don't know where else to put it. I've played a lot of Epic, and all the huge ships are fantastic.

Yeah, no, I’m just trolling. The GR-75 suffers from being released first, so it’s at the wrong end of the power creep. 

From what I’ve seen, the C-ROC is the best (it’s the scum one, so go figure) followed by the Gozanti. The big epic ships are awesome, and my personal favorite Epic ship is the Raider, but I think that they are just too expensive (they’re a really big target and don’t leave you room for much else). 

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Ranking like this is extremely subjective and the presentation here gives no context whatsoever. If the ranking is just about putting the ship on the table and flying it naked, I would say Raider is the strongest option and belongs at the top.

If with a whole list, that brings along a whole other set of criteria. I know some posters above are arguing about the use of Roark, RecSpec Esege, and Jan to boost the CR-90, and a PS12 CR-90 is definitely terrifying. But what else are you using? Just putting those 3 ships on the table plus your CR-90 is 165/300. If you cut Jan (IMO, the easiest to remove), you're down to 140 That's without any other upgrades. And adding more stuff to your support ships to make them a bit more able to hold their own only reduces the number of other ships you can get on the table. Not to mention the CR-90's vulnerability to close-range combat. Meanwhile, the Raider can get itself and Jonus and Howl on the table for 140. And the Raider has stronger arc coverage with its Primary and Secondary weapons, though both are vulnerable to ships getting behind them. The Raider can also get an extra attack while the CR-90 can add an attack die. An extra 4-die attack is nothing to sneeze at.

And the Transport is seriously undervalued by players. It is able to be such a disruptive force against your opponents while also tanking massive amounts of fore damage with Bright Hope. I'm not saying it's the best Epic to put on the table, but people may be misled by it being considered the "worst" of the Epic ships, as it is still a pretty effective ship. Plus, it's an amazing bumper car.

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GR-75 has R3-A2 and Wes Janson. I'd put it above the CR90 for contributions to standard play.

And for that matter, a single GR-75 with Dutyfree and Comms Booster can be invaluable for epic. I'll usually take it over the CR90 for my play style.

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I've played a fair bit of Epic (in competitive settings even). Here is my ranking:

 

CR-90

Transport

C-ROC

Gozanti

Raider

 

I've only played once with the C-ROC so that position is not set in stone.

Anyway, let me explain my reasoning:

The CR-90 is an absolute beast and many people don't realize it. You need the right tools for the job however. To build a CR-90 missile boat, you need Ordnance Tubes, missiles of some sort (I recommend 3x Harpoon), Sensor Team, Gunnery Team, Ordnance Experts, Finn, Weapons Engineer. IG-RM Thug Droids are good too because they pair extremely well with Harpoons. Then for support you need Roark, Jan, and Esege at minimum. Roark makes the CR-90 PS12 and allows it to fire up to 4 attacks a round before anyone else does: 1 primary and 3 missile. This is INCREDIBLY powerful as you can PS kill key ships and cripple your opponent's list before they have a chance to do anything about it. Esege makes sure all attacks are modified thanks to his constant stream of Focus tokens. Jan buffs the primary attack. Ever wanted to one-shot a T-70? The CR-90 can fire 4 dice base + 1 by spending energy + 1 from Jan + 1 from Finn = 7 dice turret attack modified by Focus and TL. And she can do that every round. On top of 3 Harpoon missile attacks. Don't mess with the CR-90 missile boat.

The Transport is another underrated ship. The thing to remember is it's a cheap support ship, nothing more. Having access to crew + 3 cargo slots is incredible for a support ship. Throw on 3 Comms Boosters and put Mindlink to shame with all those Focus tokens you're generating. Or equip Toryn Farr to strip your opponent's tokens and make them incredibly frustrated. Or throw on Ionization Reactor + Cluster Bombs and turn the thing into a giant bomb. There are so many ways to outfit the transport yet keep it at a reasonable cost.

The C-ROC is interesting. It's fairly cheap and has access to the crew and 3 cargo slots like the Transport, but it can equip a Heavy Laser Turret too so it will contribute to combat. That HLT is pretty decent too, especially if you have Dengar or Zuckuss. However the lack of a Coordinate action hurts this ship when it's being used in a support role. That is the main reason this is below the Transport.

The Gozanti is a fine ship, the Imperial equivalent of a support Epic. However it is outshined by both the Transport and the C-ROC. Compared to either of those, the Gozanti has one fewer cargo slot. It has the ability to take a hardpoint, but this is usually the Dual Laser Turret which is very mediocre. Usually not worth taking at all. The ship has some really good titles and the ability to deploy ships is nice, but ultimately it loses out to the Transport in support and the C-ROC in firepower. It's is also more expensive than either.

The Raider is a mixed bag. On the surface it's a good anti-fighter Epic with the ability to perform two attacks a round and also a great anti-Epic ship if kitted out correctly. Unfortunately it is just a little too expensive and it lacks many of the tools that make the CR-90 so good (turret, dice mods, PS12 activation in combat). The Raider is still a fun ship and can do some good work, but ultimately you're better off running a swarm of TIE Bombers for those points.

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5 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Yeah, no, I’m just trolling. The GR-75 suffers from being released first, so it’s at the wrong end of the power creep. 

From what I’ve seen, the C-ROC is the best (it’s the scum one, so go figure) followed by the Gozanti. The big epic ships are awesome, and my personal favorite Epic ship is the Raider, but I think that they are just too expensive (they’re a really big target and don’t leave you room for much else). 

You know what? The GR75 holds up better than the CR90 does. It's a solid support ship, capable of performing at a reasonable cost - particularly with the Bright Hope title and Advanced Protocols upgrade. It's a solid performer that can boost your fleet's strength. Don't underestimate it.

  • I will not argue though that the Raider is king. Best epic ship by far.
  • Gozanti or GR75 next... I haven't used the Gozanti enough being that it's the only one I don't own.
  • Reverse of above
  • CROC - used it, wasn't greatly impressed as it felt underpowered in any build/role. More of a generalist player.
  • CR90 - seriously, I have not hit a build I like with it yet. Yes, you can use your fleet to boost your major point investment, but all the other epic ships help the fleet or are at least, in the Raider's case, self-sufficient.

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@Kieransi I don't know, a local store has seen the Raider win the two most recent Epic tournaments, so it must be doing something right.

Not sure about the C-ROC - I've only played against it twice. Interestingly, the one with Zuckuss was the easy one. We took it out in one round of shooting, and it only got one shot off all game.

Edited by Parakitor

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2 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

(Epic ships cant be assigned focus tokens, they can still use Esege's tokens.)

Technically, Epic Ships cannot perform a Focus Action. But they CAN be assigned Focus/Stress tokens, wait for it, which are immediately discarded per the Epic Ship Rules. Focus and Stress tokens have NO EFFECT on Huge Ships.

Which leads directly into the trouble/debate about Esege (sorry, emails from devs are no different than house rules until Errata is printed clearly).

So you're correct: THEY(Epic Ships) can use Esege's Focus Tokens... which now have NO EFFECT.

 


 

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3 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:

By Epic-ness:

1. Raider

2. CR-90

3. Gozanti

4. C-ROC

5. GR-75

By Standard Game Offerings:

1. Raider

2. Gozanti

3. C-ROC

4. CR-90

5. GR-75

The two best Epic ships are the Transport and the Gozanti (luckily no Epic scum players in my group :lol:).  So much so we specify 1 small Epic or 1 large Epic or both in a both lists to keep it balanced otherwise there would be too many standard ships for the Raider/Corvette to deal with.

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39 minutes ago, lazycomet said:

Technically, Epic Ships cannot perform a Focus Action. But they CAN be assigned Focus/Stress tokens, wait for it, which are immediately discarded per the Epic Ship Rules. Focus and Stress tokens have NO EFFECT on Huge Ships.

Which leads directly into the trouble/debate about Esege (sorry, emails from devs are no different than house rules until Errata is printed clearly).

So you're correct: THEY(Epic Ships) can use Esege's Focus Tokens... which now have NO EFFECT.

 


 

Except for the fact that at Worlds for Team Epic, the developers themselves ok’d it. Several times. And at other events by FFG. 

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59 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Except for the fact that at Worlds for Team Epic, the developers themselves ok’d it. Several times. And at other events by FFG. 


More reason it would be nice to get a FAQ/Errata, no?  I know how hard it is, Im in publishing. What I don't understand is the timeframe... late in terms of years now.

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