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Twin Troopers Podcast: Interview with Kurt Larson

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1 hour ago, a1bert said:

(To clarify: rerolls are not simultaneous although the initial rolls are.)

 

Hey @a1bert, if you could cite where that timing rule is, I would really appreciate. I've always done attacker rerolls first and then defender rerolls, but I haven't found anything stating that yet. Thanks!

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For example these:

Special Situations Regarding Attacks said:

· Any ability that is resolved "while attacking" or "while defending" can be used at any point during the attack with the following exceptions:


  -- An ability that adds dice to a dice pool can only be used immediately before step 2 of the attack.
  -- An ability that allows a player to reroll dice can only be used during step 3 of the attack.
  -- An ability that allows a player to modify die results can only be used during step 4 of the attack.

Conflicts said:

Numerous abilities, mission rules, and other game effects can be triggered at the same time.

 · While attacking, mission rules are resolved first, followed by effects from the attacker (including figures friendly to him), then effects from the defender (including figures friendly to him).

A collage I made from various parts of the rulebook:

http://www.iki.fi/a1bert/iaimages/AttackReference.jpg

 

Edited by a1bert

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Another rules question for this episodes: what was the final ruling about the end of round timing for ISB To Your Stations? Is it in order of initiative, and if so, does the defeated figure still trigger the station for VPs and damage effect?

Thanks for another great episode!

-ryanjamal 

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To Your Stations seems clear from the wording to me. For each security station (in the order of security stations the player with initiative wants), the player who controls it chooses a hostile figure in line of sight of that security station, full stop. Then each of the chosen figures suffers 2 damage simultaneously.

 

Edited by a1bert

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16 hours ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

As someone who's done all of the things you guys said you hate in your sportsmanship section at some point or another, I'd like to extend my apologies to both of you.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯  No big deal, nothing we talked about is stuff I'd want to make anyone feel bad about doing. And it's probably stuff I've done before myself... Kind of makes sportsmanship a tricky thing to talk about, there just aren't any hard and fast rules.

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A very enjoyable listen, thanks!

Preaching for the choir here all the way through and you hit a lot af very important pointers on the competitive side of the game, both in terms of rules and the general interaction.

I would like to add, to the bit on forgotten abilities and bonuses, that there's a reason you should feel bad about not speaking up if your opponent forgets about an automatic ability (like Luke's +1 damage, as mentioned on the podcast, or things  such as the Hidden from Blaise, previously discussed at length on this forum, etc). Because if you know and notice in the situation, that your opponent forgets one of those automatic triggers, and you don't point it out, then you're technically cheating. Both players are responsible for playing the game by the rules, and that includes automatic triggers.

Now, I'm not suggesting that you should call your opponent a cheater, if you are sitting across from them and something like this slips past. The thing is, no one can know what they actually notices or why they neglected to remind you of the effect - and at the end of the day, whoever benefits the most from an ability, should be on their toes to not miss it. In other words it is not something I suggest be 'policed' or much less made a conflict of in the situation.

However, it is something that ought to inform every player's own actions, that if they notice an opponent forgetting an automatic trigger, reminding them isn't just appropriate fair play; it's refraining from knowingly cheating.

 

Edited by Cremate

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21 hours ago, Cremate said:

A very enjoyable listen, thanks!

Preaching for the choir here all the way through and you hit a lot af very important pointers on the competitive side of the game, both in terms of rules and the general interaction.

I would like to add, to the bit on forgotten abilities and bonuses, that there's a reason you should feel bad about not speaking up if your opponent forgets about an automatic ability (like Luke's +1 damage, as mentioned on the podcast, or things  such as the Hidden from Blaise, previously discussed at length on this forum, etc). Because if you know and notice in the situation, that your opponent forgets one of those automatic triggers, and you don't point it out, then you're technically cheating. Both players are responsible for playing the game by the rules, and that includes automatic triggers.

Now, I'm not suggesting that you should call your opponent a cheater, if you are sitting across from them and something like this slips past. The thing is, no one can know what they actually notices or why they neglected to remind you of the effect - and at the end of the day, whoever benefits the most from an ability, should be on their toes to not miss it. In other words it is not something I suggest be 'policed' or much less made a conflict of in the situation.

However, it is something that ought to inform every player's own actions, that if they notice an opponent forgetting an automatic trigger, reminding them isn't just appropriate fair play; it's refraining from knowingly cheating.

 

I really feel it's a d#ck move when you don't point out automatic triggers, especially when it doesn't say "may". Would you let your opponent roll the wrong dice? For example if he has Luke with the built in +1 damage, not adding that in automatically is not much different than letting him roll the wrong dice. 

I get it at Premier events that people want to be competitive and hope their opponent misses stuff, but my gut feeling is that at other events (Regionals, Store Champs, Kit tourneys) we should be working to build the community. The swag can all be bought for cheap off of ebay, so what's there to play for other than pride?

Listen, when I win, I want to win because I beat my opponent, not because he beat himself. 

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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3 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

I really feel it's a d#ck move when you don't point out automatic triggers, especially when it doesn't say "may". Would you let your opponent roll the wrong dice? For example if he has Luke with the built in +1 damage, not adding that in automatically is not much different than letting him roll the wrong dice. 

I get it at Premier events that people want to be competitive and hope their opponent misses stuff, but my gut feeling is that at other events (Regionals, Store Champs, Kit tourneys) we should be working to build the community. The swag can all be bought for cheap off of ebay, so what's there to play for other than pride?

Listen, when I win, I want to win because I beat my opponent, not because he beat himself. 

My general policy is that I will point out"may" triggers and allow takebacks at anything less than Regionals (ie "Do you want to use Get Down?"). Once we get to Regionals or higher though, I allow my opponent to make mistakes with "may" triggers. That might make me a d!ck, but if we're at the highest levels of tourney, I expect the highest levels of play.

However, I will always point out non-may triggers and abilities at all levels of play. Running a rules-compliant game is everyone's responsibility.

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Ha ha, I have played someone who reminded me once of a "may" trigger (possibly a move with my Alliance smuggler after an attack?) and then it turned out that was exactly what he needed me to do (I forget why). I got played, but in such a gentlemanly way that I had to tip my cap. 😆

-ryanjamal 

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47 minutes ago, ThatJakeGuy said:

My general policy is that I will point out"may" triggers and allow takebacks at anything less than Regionals (ie "Do you want to use Get Down?"). Once we get to Regionals or higher though, I allow my opponent to make mistakes with "may" triggers. That might make me a d!ck, but if we're at the highest levels of tourney, I expect the highest levels of play.

However, I will always point out non-may triggers and abilities at all levels of play. Running a rules-compliant game is everyone's responsibility.

When I attack with Greedo:

Store Tournament - "I'm attacking _____ with Greedo (shakes dice)" x3

Store Championship - "I'm attacking ______ with Greedo (shakes dice)" x2

Regionals - "I'm attacking ______ with Greedo (shakes dice)" x1

Nationals and Worlds - "I'm attacking ______ with Greedo (slowly picks up and rolls dice)"

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2 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

When I attack with Greedo:

Store Tournament - "I'm attacking _____ with Greedo (shakes dice)" x3

Store Championship - "I'm attacking ______ with Greedo (shakes dice)" x2

Regionals - "I'm attacking ______ with Greedo (shakes dice)" x1

Nationals and Worlds - "I'm attacking ______ with Greedo (slowly picks up and rolls dice)"

To be honest, of it's a 'may' trigger on your card, I wouldn't expect people at Store level events to know or understand the opportunity afforded them by an upside down card on the opposite side of the table. There's a lot of very inexperienced tournament players, at least in the UK from what I've seen. At which point, I'd prompt them the first time or two, unless I was shooting a melee character at range who couldn't attack me anyway! But you're right, at Regionals and above I'd expect my opponent to know common figures' rules, like Greedo.

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We said this in the interview, but, even though I understand why people expect people at Nationals and above to know every card, I think it's nice not to assume. Reminding the opponent about Greedo's ability at least once, so you know they know about it, seems nice.

And for me I wouldn't feel good about my opponent forgetting the trigger and me intentionally exploiting it, even if I stared at them a couple seconds to give them a chance. So I'd rather just explicitly say "Greeedo's attacking her, she gets to attack Greedo first" every time.

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So you would be perfectly fine with your opponent missing their use of Slow on the Draw when you are attacking with Greedo?

I know the discussion shifted from compulsory to optional abilities while I've been away over the weekend, but considering that Greedo's ability is on my own card, when playing with him, I would never ever try to have my opponent miss their use of it, even if it is only an optional ability.

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Taking it one step further...

Also consider that Slow on the Draw is mandatory for Greedo. Being his ability, the player who controls him is responsible for resolving Slow on the Draw. (Although so is the opponent.)

Part of resolving that ability includes checking if the target chooses to interrupt perform an attack targeting Greedo. If the attack is not possible, you can skip asking. (Technically the target could still try to perform an attack and get it cancelled during step 1: Declare target.)

 

Edited by a1bert

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Well then the same could be said about Blais' "Adapt" ability. In fact, his does not include the "may" keyword. Should the opponent say "Well, I'm playing a command card for the first time this round so you get to hide a trooper or spy."? 

I think you can explain abilities to your opponent at the beginning of the game and let it be their responsibility to remember it. I don't think it's wrong for that opponent to ask for a reminder every time even; however, at premier events most know what the abilities are and also accept that it's their responsibility to avoid "missed opportunities". 

Below premier events is everyone's chance to learn the game. At this level, I tell my opponents everything, even if it's self-defeating. I love this game and want people to play it, not be scared away. The ones who come to premier events are not newbies. They know how it all works. And I can tell you that if I played a newbie, I would help them out. 

Edited by NeverBetTheFett

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I think I would remind my opponent about their Blaise ability every round if it didn't look like they remembered (though honestly I'd be less likely to remember it than them). But if I had Blaise I wouldn't be expecting anyone to remind me - if I missed my own trigger that's on me and I'd have to live with it.

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25 minutes ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

Well then the same could be said about Blais' "Adapt" ability. In fact, his does not include the "may" keyword. Should the opponent say "Well, I'm playing a command card for the first time this round so you get to hide a trooper or spy."?

Technically the tournament rules tell that both players are responsible that mandatory effects are being performed. It's not very enforceable rule though, because there are no predefined procedure for failing to do that.

Adapt is Blaise's ability, so Blaise's player is "more responsible", just like Greedo's player is "more responsible" for Slow on the Draw.

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This is from the "Gun for Hire" Preview for Greedo that FFG posted a while back. 

"For Greedo, that drawback is the Slow on the Draw ability—whenever you declare an attack, your target can interrupt your turn and perform an attack against you! Obviously, this can be a significant drawback, but it’s easy to mitigate if you choose your marks wisely and make ranged attacks against melee figures." 

Reading this makes me agree that they intended it to be mandatory. However, why would they say "may"? Like why wouldn't you want an attack? Well, it's all good anyway, because most people don't forget to attack. He's still awesome for 4pts! Definitely my favourite figure in the game (so far...).

I think it's cool how Twin Troopers post spurred this discussion. This place needs more discussion!  

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1. You are focused and/or hidden and want to save your attack for a more juicier target instead of Greedo, who is no longer a threat this round.

2. Especially if Greedo is performing Parting Shot, unless you have very good after attack resolves / after resolving an attack abilities.

 

 

Edited by a1bert

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