About Murder at the Prancing Pony

[Rajam 139]

While I'm at stage 2B, what happens if I "tie" during the quest phase (ie: I quest with 5 and after revealing an encounter card there is 5 threat on the staging area)? Is that considered to quest successfully, unsuccessfully, or none?

 

How does Ramshackle Manor work with Favor of the Valar?

[sappidus 531]

51 minutes ago, Rajam said:

While I'm at stage 2B, what happens if I "tie" during the quest phase (ie: I quest with 5 and after revealing an encounter card there is 5 threat on the staging area)? Is that considered to quest successfully, unsuccessfully, or none?

None, which seems to confuse many people, but it is borne out by a careful reading of the Core rules.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

As for Ramshackle Manor, I suppose you would only lower your threat to 49 via Favor of the Valar.

[Rajam 139]

1 hour ago, GrandSpleen said:

As for Ramshackle Manor, I suppose you would only lower your threat to 49 via Favor of the Valar.

 

Thought of that, although there could be some different interpretations:

 

1) Let's suppose you're at 47 threat. An encounter card makes you raise your threat by 6, so you'd reach 53 threat. Then, with Favor of the Valar you'd drop your threat to 45, which means you are reducing your threat by 8. Now, Ramshackle Manor effect comes into play, and instead of reducing your threat by 8, you reduce it only by 1, which means your threat drops from 53 to 52, and you'd still die...

 

2) Favor of the Valar doesn't reduce your threat "by" an specific amount, instead it reduces your threat "to" an specific amount, so it isn't affected by Ramshackle Mannor and in case you reach 50 threat or higher, you reduce your threat to 45

 

¿?

Edited September 28, 2017 by Rajam

[dalestephenson 1,482]

I think since Favor of Valar sets *to* a specific amount rather than reducing *by* a specific amount, it would be Rajam's #2.  However, *if* Ramshackle nerfed Favor of the Valar, I think it would be in the form of Rajam's #1 -- it wouldn't end up at 49 unless Favor of Valar kicked in when threat was *exactly* 50, and going past 50 would make it not work at all.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Sounds worthy of an official rules question!

[sappidus 531]

Seastan recently got a ruling in the context of the Dire keyword and A Elbereth, etc., which disallowed the planned shenanigan. I'll see if I can get the precise ruling from him.

[Seastan 1,324]

Not sure if it strictly applies to this situation, but here's what Caleb said:

Quote

In every case where card text says that your threat “cannot be reduced” it means that the actual value on your threat dial cannot go down. This is important because there are several ‘threat reduction’ effects in the game that do not use the word reduce.

For example, Elrond’s Counsel says “lower your threat by 3” but I think players understand that if I cannot reduce my threat, then I cannot use Elrond’s Counsel to lower it either. 

Similarly, if I cannot reduce my threat then I cannot ‘set’ my threat to a value that is lower than my current one because I would have to reduce it in order to do that.

I think you will find that Vanish from Sight can still be a useful card when playing Mount Doom, especially when it comes to making fortitude tests, but you cannot combo it with A Elbereth! Gilthonial! to reduce your threat. 

But Ramshackle Manor seems a little more nuanced than "cannot be reduced".

[Rouxxor 271]

With this ruling it seem that sent your threat to 45 means "reduce your threat to 45" (and it work this way in many others games). So if you go to 51 threat you die.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

Yeah agreed

[JJ48 7,102]

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 9:33 AM, sappidus said:

None, which seems to confuse many people, but it is borne out by a careful reading of the Core rules.

I had always assumed that a tie meant a successful questing with zero progress placed!  Thank you for clarifying and correcting!

[Rajam 139]

Caleb's answer:

 

Hi Rajam,
Any effect that causes the value of threat dial to go down is reducing your threat. Ramshackle Manor prevents your threat dial from being decreased by more than 1 each round. So if Ramshackle Manor is in play when Favor of the Valar triggers, you cannot reduce your threat by more than 1. If your threat is still 50 or higher after the effect resolves, then you will still be eliminated.
Hope you’re enjoying Murder at the Prancing Pony!
Cheers,
Caleb

[Emilius 73]

2 hours ago, Rajam said:

Caleb's answer:

 

Hi Rajam,
Any effect that causes the value of threat dial to go down is reducing your threat. Ramshackle Manor prevents your threat dial from being decreased by more than 1 each round. So if Ramshackle Manor is in play when Favor of the Valar triggers, you cannot reduce your threat by more than 1. If your threat is still 50 or higher after the effect resolves, then you will still be eliminated.
Hope you’re enjoying Murder at the Prancing Pony!
Cheers,
Caleb

 

So, thanks to Favor of The Valar, this mean that if you increase your threat more than 50 ( for example from 49 to 52), do you decrease threat level from 52 to 47 or from 50 to 45?

[dalestephenson 1,482]

15 minutes ago, Emilius said:

 

So, thanks to Favor of The Valar, this mean that if you increase your threat more than 50 ( for example from 49 to 52), do you decrease threat level from 52 to 47 or from 50 to 45?

In the "normal" case (no Ramshackle manor or unusual elimination levels), Favor of The Valar reduces your threat to "5 less than your threat elimination level" -- which can only be 45.  You would reduce from 52 to 45, assuming you increased to 52 in one effect.

[Rajam 139]

40 minutes ago, Emilius said:

 

So, thanks to Favor of The Valar, this mean that if you increase your threat more than 50 ( for example from 49 to 52), do you decrease threat level from 52 to 47 or from 50 to 45?

 From 52 to 51 and you'd still be eliminated.

 

It works like this:

"Let's suppose you're at 47 threat. An encounter card makes you raise your threat by 6, so you'd reach 53 threat. Then, with Favor of the Valar you'd drop your threat to 45, which means you are reducing your threat by 8. Now, Ramshackle Manor effect comes into play, and instead of reducing your threat by 8, you reduce it only by 1, which means your threat drops from 53 to 52, and you'd still die..."