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Mynock Podcast 87 - Bombs and Breakfast

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http://mynockpodcast.libsyn.com/episode-87-bombs-and-breakfast

You may fire when ready internet! Today we've got the Mynocks talking about UK and Polish Nationals.  Is the meta the same?  Sort of?  We bring back another ship retrospective: the TIE Bomber, and it's surprisingly more relevant than you think.  Then after the end bumper Dee and Ryan debate the merits of Pancakes vs Waffles!

  • [00:07:34] Uk Nationals
  • [00:35:00] Polish Nationals
  • [00:50:00] Dallas Mini Segment!
  • [01:07:00] Ship Retrospective: TIE BOMBER
  • [01:43:00] Ask the Mynocks
  • [01:55:00] Waffles versus Pancakes


FLY BETTER!

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As I am form Poland, I enjoy to hear opinions about the Polish meta, and Polish tournaments form other side of the ocean ?. I believe thanks to this kind of discussions your podcast got lot of attention from Europe.

As for Polish meta being isolated:

-          we are European Team Champions twice in a row now (2016 and 2017)

-          we occupy like 25% of every top8 of System Open Series in Europe (always 2 or 3 Poles in the Top8, I cant call other nation that has this kind of record)

-          Lothal Open Final (Germany) was internal Polish match (Dmochowski vs Golonka)

-          The highest ranked Empire player this year at GenCon (top8?) was Pole (Jakub Tepper with RAC+Quickdraw)

-          Pole – Piotr Kuc - has won whole System Open Series in 2016 (Coruscant Invitational in USA)

-          we created Parattanni ? and we sold it to the world ?

I think in Europe – Poland – along with UK, Spain and the Netherlands – makes the most noise on the competitive X-wing scene.  

WE ARE THE META ? Dee Yun is isolated :D 

Jokes aside, thx for the nice podcast.

 

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Please let mi add also little additional context about players and lists you were referring to during podcast:

Winner – Jan Swirski

He’s last year Czech/Slovakia Champion. Very seasoned players know of flying lists of his own design often including this exact HWK build. He has long record flying this ship – its only 4-5 points more than standard TLT and its has better defense and better attack (almost endless tokens plus reinforce from Lowhhirck) and almost the same health (Chewbacca is at least 2 health, and if you manage to negate Direct Hit its +3 health). He flown this list perfectly using it like super accurate and resilient TLTs.

We (Polish community) do not think this is the best list around, and we know he had ton of luck winning this tournament, but it was good meta call and he dodged all hard counters – actually he even managed to defeat one he faced (defeated Damian Drzystek in top8 thanks to extremally lucky one-shot Fenn). As you can analyze other top32 lists – only few were unorthodox ones – majority of players fly standard Nym/Dash/Dengar/Miranda/something combo. And level of play is very high – current German champion came to us trying to steal our trophies and finished 3:3 ?

And regarding skill factor he definitely deserved this win – Jan is seasoned player, he was at Worlds this year and ended 25th with 7-2 record missing top8 by MoV playing Miranda Dash

Top8 – Damian “Dydu” Drzystek (Dshystek)

You seemed surprised seeing Scyk in top8 ? Let me introduce list and the player

“Dydu” is very good player playing exclusively unorthodox lists of his own design. He is also International player traveling to different countries to compete.

He happens to visit USA this year twice – he went to Mustafar Open, and to Worlds.

Mustafar results are not at ListJuggler but if you dig up, you can find him hitting top10 using Fenn PTL/Teroch VI and Zukuss VI which was crazy list at the time.

So going back to Scyk in top8 please check results of French Nationals 3 weeks before Polish Nationals ?

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3360

As you can see, there is the same List and the same Damian 4th after Swiss ?

Its definitely not an accident.

List is one of the best and fun to fly around – it has 2 ships with standard firing arcs! ? It has very good synergy – thanks to 97 pts bid his Nym moves after all other Nyms and is able to unleash 5-dice-curise attack more often or to reposition to be in rng1 to avoid TLT shots and to utilize his Autoblaster turret and his Fenn moves after other PS9 aces (Expertise Dengar is most popular now). And Ion Cannon PS1 Scyk is a key to board control – all Nyms and Mirandas has to stay away of him and Contracted Scouts are bumping him instead of hunting to bump Fenn. I would play this list for sure but he’s my clubmate and we agreed to play different lists ?

List is called “Barrelass” as Dydu has in Poland reputation of player who plays perfectly, amazingly and efficiently until at some point of the tournament he makes some totally stupid move like barrel roll into arcs of all enemy ships at once ? He lost some cut games in major tournaments in similar way and because those matches are recorded we called them “Dydu’s Moves – barrels out of the ***” ?

As for lack of Triple Scouts in top32 of our Nationals – there were some of them, but didn’t made a Cut. Meta is often matter of fashion and popularity, and most of our best players consider flying 3 Jumps sort of cheesy ?

Hope this put some light on the Polish X-wing

Keep up great work with the Podcast!

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WTF are you people talking about?  Advanced Sensors have always been good, and they've been around since Wave 2, for Christ's sake.  And now Nym, and Silencer, come along, and now Advanced Sensors is the problem?  What in the he11, seriously?  Quit calling for nerfs on perfectly reasonable cards when completely unreasonable cards are released that abuse the perfectly reasonable card.  The perfectly reasonable Advanced Sensors is not the problem.  Jesus.

BUT!  I am really enjoying this episode.  Y'all are having a good time, Dallas is participating a lot, and it's fun to listen to.

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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1 hour ago, Oldpara said:

As I am form Poland, I enjoy to hear opinions about the Polish meta, and Polish tournaments form other side of the ocean ?. I believe thanks to this kind of discussions your podcast got lot of attention from Europe.

As for Polish meta being isolated:

-          we are European Team Champions twice in a row now (2016 and 2017)

-          we occupy like 25% of every top8 of System Open Series in Europe (always 2 or 3 Poles in the Top8, I cant call other nation that has this kind of record)

-          Lothal Open Final (Germany) was internal Polish match (Dmochowski vs Golonka)

-          The highest ranked Empire player this year at GenCon (top8?) was Pole (Jakub Tepper with RAC+Quickdraw)

-          Pole – Piotr Kuc - has won whole System Open Series in 2016 (Coruscant Invitational in USA)

-          we created Parattanni ? and we sold it to the world ?

I think in Europe – Poland – along with UK, Spain and the Netherlands – makes the most noise on the competitive X-wing scene.  

WE ARE THE META ? Dee Yun is isolated :D 

Jokes aside, thx for the nice podcast.

 

I KNOWWWW the Polish players are some of the best in the world! There's no doubt about that, just seeing the nationals results are baffling to me!

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36 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

WTF are you people talking about?  Advanced Sensors have always been good, and they've been around since Wave 2, for Christ's sake.  And now Nym, and Silencer, come along, and now Advanced Sensors is the problem?  What in the he11, seriously?  Quit calling for nerfs on perfectly reasonable cards when completely unreasonable cards are released that abuse the perfectly reasonable card.  The perfectly reasonable Advanced Sensors is not the problem.  Jesus.

BUT!  I am really enjoying this episode.  Y'all are having a good time, Dallas is participating a lot, and it's fun to listen to.

The first image is what Whisper was before the nerf with just the decloak, one hard, and barrel roll. She had mostly perfect information of the board state at PS9, and could move nearly anywhere.

The second image is what TIE Silencer can do with just the 2 green hard to the left, with advanced sensors and push the limit. You can quite literally put Kylo anywhere. 

That is the reason Whisper was nerfed, and it's the reason Adv Sensors should be nerfed too. Not to mention all the nonsense that Genius + Adv Sensors lets Nym do. 

The perfect information is supposedly why Palp was nerfed. Following that logic, Adv Sensors ought to be nerfed too. 

whisper.PNG

kylencer.PNG

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4 hours ago, TheMinions said:

The perfect information is supposedly why Palp was nerfed. Following that logic, Adv Sensors ought to be nerfed too. 

No, that's why the TIE Silencer is a stupid ship that should come out of the gate with a nerf.

There is nothing wrong with Advanced Sensors.  The problem is creating overpowered ridiculous ships that can use and abuse Advanced Sensors.  Advanced Sensors has been absolutely fine for literally years.  Advanced Sensors is still fine.  Nym and Silencer are the problems, not Advanced Sensors.

Jeeeesus.

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4 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

WTF are you people talking about?  Advanced Sensors have always been good, and they've been around since Wave 2, for Christ's sake.  And now Nym, and Silencer, come along, and now Advanced Sensors is the problem?  What in the he11, seriously?  Quit calling for nerfs on perfectly reasonable cards when completely unreasonable cards are released that abuse the perfectly reasonable card.  The perfectly reasonable Advanced Sensors is not the problem.  Jesus.

BUT!  I am really enjoying this episode.  Y'all are having a good time, Dallas is participating a lot, and it's fun to listen to.

I think people were complaining about Adv Sensors around the time it was released too, especially with Paul’s first worlds win.

It’s a card that can be abused and only reason I think it hasn’t been abused at this scale before was because Fire Control System being a point cheaper and the Stresshog. Also double repositioners that could take it are limited, Corran typically wants FCS & Vader wants ATC. The rest are single repositioners that usually wants to take a token so the power of Adv Sensors isn’t as high. With Nym not needing tokens because of auto damage and tlt, he is now a platform that can make the card overpowered.

I think it is a card that probably shouldn’t have existed in the first place due to it limiting the design space and one mistake makes it overpowered, much like Mindlink and Biggs. 

 

Edited by Tbetts94

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I just got done listening to your most recent two Episodes, but I've got to say that while your discussion about action advantage with Ravncat was interesting my response was "Well, duh."

Dee even brought up the logical fallacy of football coaches who look at statistics and say "Football teams that are winning run more, so we should run more and we'll win", which ignored the reasons behind that, and yet nobody thought to bring up the fact that a winning list will almost always be taking more actions because it has more ships on the field for a longer period. It was mentioned that there is a direct correlation between margin of victory and action advantage, and a higher margin of victory will have you keeping even more of your ships on the battlefield for a longer period than in closer games.

I'm not discounting the fact that action advantage is a potent inclusion in lists, but I think the effect of removing your opponents ships from the board was really glossed over - Ravncat mentioned the advantage of removing a ship before it could spend a token that turn, but didn't follow up with all the future actions it could have taken.

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10 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

WTF are you people talking about?  Advanced Sensors have always been good, and they've been around since Wave 2, for Christ's sake.  And now Nym, and Silencer, come along, and now Advanced Sensors is the problem?  What in the he11, seriously?  Quit calling for nerfs on perfectly reasonable cards when completely unreasonable cards are released that abuse the perfectly reasonable card.  The perfectly reasonable Advanced Sensors is not the problem.  Jesus.

BUT!  I am really enjoying this episode.  Y'all are having a good time, Dallas is participating a lot, and it's fun to listen to.

I agree with @Jeff Wilder that I'm struggling to see Advanced Sensors as a problem.  I mean, I would always have marked it down as the best System slot upgrade, but it comes at such a premium cost I would have considered it fair.  It was fine on Corran, right?  I could be persuaded that it just offers too much repositioning control, but you would have to work very hard.

Trigger at the start of the activation phase?

Also: any time the Mynocks talk about European stuff they rapidly get onto shaky ground.  Poland are a tough tough country and it only take a little googling to get some valuable context, like oldpara just shared.  I share the bafflement at the winning list, but my response was "**** if that won Polish nats then I need to go away and re-evaluate something... I just don't know what!"

Edited by Stay On The Leader

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7 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Also: any time the Mynocks talk about European stuff they rapidly get onto shaky ground.  Poland are a tough tough country and it only take a little googling to get some valuable context, like oldpara just shared.

At least they try, and I admire that. They talk about tournaments across the world, about ETC, ATC etc. Even if sometimes comments are somehow shallow or without proper research, more often its a start of good discussion, sharing opinions, knowing each other etc. Community integrates thanks to that. 

So Mynocks - keep it that way :)

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I'm with @Jeff Wilder that advanced sensors is not a problem. It's a good card, and the only problem it creates potentially is the chassis that ffg starts to push out these days.

Please stop calling for endless nerfs against things that are not broken. Focus on feedback to ffg about what ships and upgrade slots they send out.

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Holy Crap!  Dee, please read a book or even a Wikipedia article on military strategy.  You krep making this terminology mistake.  Grand Strategy =/ Operations.  It goes Grand Strategy > Strategy > Operations > Tactics.  

Grand Strategy involves national goals and methods in the world.  

Strategy is about marshalling and devoting resources to achieve long-term goals.  

Operations is a fairly new term describing movement and application of resources to shape the local area and shape the conditions before a battle begins.  It's kind of vague and there's some debate about the term.

Tactics are about movement on the battlefield.  

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And he's an idiot about pie and cake, too.  The ceiling on pie is so much higher than cake.  I used to like you, Dee....., what's happened?

 

Also, pancakes are best, but you missed the most significant reason.  You can make pancakes with bacon fat.  That is very impractical for waffles.

Edited by Biophysical

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I'm just so tired of the pattern:

Card X is released.  Card X is considered fine.  Maybe Card X is even considered suboptimal ("it makes your whole squad stressed!" "FCS is clearly the right card!").  Some people use and enjoy Card X, to lesser or moderate success and fun.

Then Ship Z is released.  Possibly Ship Y, too.  Ships Y and Z use Card X (along with Card A, Card C, Card W, Card G, and Card T, not to mention Dial F (for Fantastic), because Ships Y and Z are so, so balanced), and Ships Y and Z absolutely wreck face.

And then come the calls to nerf ... Card X.

Again, W. T. F.  From two (so far) podcasts featuring personalities who proudly and incessantly tout themselves as grounded in logical analysis, it's just ... bizarre.  It's like calls to nerf gunpowder because fully automatic weapons were invented.  Does something need nerfing?  Yeah.  Does it make sense it be gunpowder?

And the reason it pisses me off so, so, so much is that FFG has proven themselves to be both lazy and terrible at actually fixing the game.  They consistently seek the easiest way to "fix" something, with not even a glance at whether it's a good way to fix it (and an actual sneer at the suggestion of finding the best way to fix it).  So if enough people -- people in high-profile positions, people who really should know better, people who can influence the X-Wing community -- start spouting the easy -- stupid, but easy -- way to "fix" something, there's a really good chance FFG is going to listen.

That is so goddamn annoying.  So stop doing it.

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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I think you've made your point, Jeff.

I appreciated the episode fellas, definitely the best one in a while.

The breakfast debate was great, and I'll be referring to the upgrade as omelette generator for as long as I play this game. Waffles are clearly best and I'm offended French toast was even mentioned. Regular toast is superior to French toast. French toast is either rubbery or spongy. It feels like a breakfast prank, like putting a plastic apple in a fruit bowl.

Also, as far as Tomax goes, I wouldn't dismiss Cool Hand so quickly:

Tomax Bren (24)
Cool Hand (1)
Systems Officer (2)
Fleet Officer (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE Shuttle (0)

Total: 31

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

While he won't be dominating top tables, +4 actions a turn is nothing to scoff at--especially in a faction lacking in support ships. 

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2 hours ago, Sekac said:

 

The breakfast debate was great, and I'll be referring to the upgrade as omelette generator for as long as I play this game. Waffles are clearly best and I'm offended French toast was even mentioned. Regular toast is superior to French toast. French toast is either rubbery or spongy. It feels like a breakfast prank, like putting a plastic apple in a fruit bowl.

Dude, you are totally doing French Toast wrong. 

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