Are core game investigators weaker?

[Raahk 184]

I have noticed  that the investigators from the dunwich legacy expansion pack have a total of 15 "hitpoints" combined whereas the core game investigators have a total of 14. Additionally Core game investigators are restricted to one additional class whereas investigators from the dunwich legacy aren't. Am i missing something?

[Starbreaker1 75]

Everything you have said is true, except the core set investigators can take any number of cards from their off class, and up to level 2 cards in their off class as well, where as the dunwich investigators can only take 5 level 0 cards.  It is a trade off, and though the dunwich investigators do have better "hitpoints" I find having the ability to take leveled up cards of two classes to be equal in most respects.

[Jobu 720]

I can see why you would think that based on what you said and Starbreaker1 makes some good points about benefits that core investigators have.

I don't find them weaker.

[awp832 447]

Well if you're playing solo, things get jumbled up a bit; but applying only to multiplayer:

Roland is weaker than Zoey
Daisy is (slightly) weaker than Rex
Skids is (slightly) weaker than Jenny
Wendy is stronger than Pete
Agnes is (significantly) stronger than Jim.

^In my opinion of course.  But I think most of those are pretty uncontroversial.   There will be some argument for Wendy>Pete, there might be some argument for Jenny>Skidsbut I dont hear much talk about that one.  So, what I'm saying is, it's about an even split.   Some Core investigators seem to be better, some Dunwich investigators seem to be better.   Most of it comes down to stat placement, abilities, and signature cards though rather than specifically how much HP/San they have.  Although I do feel that Zoey's higher San (and Willpower) is a lot of what gives her an edge over Roland.  

[Khudzlin 734]

42 minutes ago, awp832 said:

Some Core investigators seem to be better, some Dunwich investigators seem to be better.   Most of it comes down to stat placement, abilities, and signature cards though rather than specifically how much HP/San they have.  Although I do feel that Zoey's higher San (and Willpower) is a lot of what gives her an edge over Roland.  

Deckbuilding options is also an important criterion. Also, the number of players can change the ranking significantly, because you can specialize more with higher player counts. In solo, Roland pulls ahead of Zoey because he's better at getting clues (no one else is going to get them for you). In multiplayer, he falls behind because Zoey is more resilient and Mark is a better fighter (someone else gets the clues, so the guardian's job is to get rid of enemies).

[Buhallin 4,563]

4 hours ago, awp832 said:

Well if you're playing solo, things get jumbled up a bit; but applying only to multiplayer:

Roland is weaker than Zoey
Daisy is (slightly) weaker than Rex
Skids is (slightly) weaker than Jenny
Wendy is stronger than Pete
Agnes is (significantly) stronger than Jim.

^In my opinion of course.  But I think most of those are pretty uncontroversial. 

These are definitely common opinions, but I find them to be very shallow and one-dimensional (broadly, not picking on you specifically).

Is Daisy weaker than Rex?  For pure clue gathering, yes.  But in a group setting, I don't think she is at all.  She brings much more support, and investigates better in a mixed group.  Rex's +2 trigger means he wants to hit the low shroud locations - the same ones that the balanced investigators could do good clearing.

Is Roland weaker than Zoey?  For pure monster bashing, probably.  But Zoey's also pretty useless at gathering clues, while it's a solid backup capability for Roland.  Honestly, just access to Pathfinder increases Roland's action efficiency a lot, and being able to make reasonable use of Deduction gives him some serious spike gathering.

That's not to say that every investigator is equal - Skids especially falls into a poor zone where his strong stat (agility) is the least useful in the game.  But a lot of people's evaluation is basically "Guardians kill.  Who's the best killer?"  I think the game is far more nuanced than that.

[Network57 561]

13 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

These are definitely common opinions, but I find them to be very shallow and one-dimensional (broadly, not picking on you specifically).

Mmm, yes, shallow and pedantic.

[Jobu 720]

46 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

...

Is Daisy weaker than Rex?  For pure clue gathering, yes.  But in a group setting, I don't think she is at all.  She brings much more support, and investigates better in a mixed group.  Rex's +2 trigger means he wants to hit the low shroud locations - the same ones that the balanced investigators could do good clearing.

Is Roland weaker than Zoey?  For pure monster bashing, probably.  But Zoey's also pretty useless at gathering clues, while it's a solid backup capability for Roland.  Honestly, just access to Pathfinder increases Roland's action efficiency a lot, and being able to make reasonable use of Deduction gives him some serious spike gathering.

That's not to say that every investigator is equal - Skids especially falls into a poor zone where his strong stat (agility) is the least useful in the game.  But a lot of people's evaluation is basically "Guardians kill.  Who's the best killer?"  I think the game is far more nuanced than that.

I was going to write something similar.

On Skids, I have trouble making him work, low will, mediocre fight, mediocre intellect and he seems to want to do lots of actions with relatively low skill.  I learned on a failed 4 player play through of the Dunwich Legacy that having an evader could be extremely useful.  Prior to that, I had a lot of disdain for the evade action.  In response, a friend of mine made a very odd Skids deck, one that I would never run.  I am interested in seeing how it works out.

I also find Wendy and Pete so different that its hard to say one is a better.

[Raahk 184]

7 hours ago, Starbreaker1 said:

[...] where as the dunwich investigators can only take 5 level 0 cards.

I have totally missed that rule Thanks for your input guys, it is very much appreciated. I started playing two days ago and love this game already so very much!

[Buhallin 4,563]

32 minutes ago, Jobu said:

I was going to write something similar.

On Skids, I have trouble making him work, low will, mediocre fight, mediocre intellect and he seems to want to do lots of actions with relatively low skill.  I learned on a failed 4 player play through of the Dunwich Legacy that having an evader could be extremely useful.  Prior to that, I had a lot of disdain for the evade action.  In response, a friend of mine made a very odd Skids deck, one that I would never run.  I am interested in seeing how it works out.

I definitely value evade - there are situations where it is absolutely critical.  But they're rare.  The problem is that most groups can manage a 3 Agility evader who can handle the job.

Generally speaking, differences in stats matter a lot more for frequent actions.  That may seem obvious, but it's important.  It's why I think Minh is a less capable investigator than Daisy - that +1 matters a lot when you're trying to pull off three investigations.  Skids' problem is that evade is not a frequent action, so the times that you do need it you can typically cover it with an extra skill card.

Generally, I think every investigator has their place and strengths - Skids is kind of the one exception.

[Donel 42]

I think you guys are playing skids wrong. Skids is in the most resourse expensive and resourse reaping classes. He can actually afford to run two dynamites in his deck and expect to use both of them. His investigator ability puts him in a situation where he can engage, evade, and drop two sneak attacks reliably. He can, once again, actually afford to get patrol officer's and a weapon out. Throw teamwork on him and he can share the love. And while jenny could do any of these she can only take on so many of blues expansive cards while skids can take on any number of then. I think he would pair exceptionally well with with the grave digger

[awp832 447]

hm.  I like skids.   He's a good monster slayer.  The peculiar combination of guardian/rogue lets you do some pretty amazing things.  He can take Chicago Typewriter, prepared for the Worst, Vicious Blow-2, double-or-nothing, beat cop, contraband, Lone Wolf, Brother Xavier...     combining a few of these makes him very powerful.  Sanity can be an issue but nothing that an Elder Sign Amulet or two wont solve.  

Spending money for extra actions can be handy sometimes, and he has one of the better Elder Sign effects for sure.

[Jobu 720]

Anyone care to share a Skids decklist?  Like I said, I can't seem to make one that I think will work reliably. 

[awp832 447]

here's mine.

https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/71345

[GravyAnecdote 20]

1 hour ago, awp832 said:

here's mine.

https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/71345

Hi - I got an error saying that deck's private. Could you share it? Thx.

[GravyAnecdote 20]

Is this it:

https://arkhamdb.com/decklist/view/3114/the-skids-redemption-1.0

[awp832 447]

yes, that's it.

[Jobu 720]

Thanks that helps a lot. 

Its a great starting place for me to make some customizations for a 2 core deck.

I also see what you are getting at here.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Jobu

[tsuruki 197]

In my opinion the Investigators work too differently to be directly comparable.

Zoey is a lot tougher than Roland and a better combatant, but she is by no means as capable at gathering clues and far less versatile.

Rex is faster then Daisy but her free tome ability is massively powerful once you've drawn your book of lore. She is also better at scenario specific actions.

Pete is much more flexible then Wendy, having the innate ability to gather clues and kill enemies from the start of the game, Wendy however is by far the most slippery investigator available, she just skips enemies altogether to go straight for objectives.

Jim Culver is more flexible than Agnes, being able to leverage his higher combat and intellect stats to kill enemies and gather clues without spells. Agnes however is by far the deadlier spellcaster.

Jenny is less the rouge and more the jack of all trades, she cant evade threats the way Skidd's can, she is tougher though, really the only investigator that might actually be outright better than her counterpart