Boom Owl

Star Wars: Imperial Tactics Episode I: Whisper

41 posts in this topic

@citruscannon

Really good stuff, some of the most insightful feedback so far. Thank you citrus. Particularly for the clarification on Gunner. 

The world needs more of that paint scheme. To cool.

Edited by Boom Owl
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1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

@citruscannon

Really good stuff, some of the most insightful feedback so far. Thank you citrus. Particularly for the clarification on Gunner. 

The world needs more of that paint scheme. To cool.


Let's talk numbers for a second. 

let's say you've planned your approach well, you've got whisper trailing your other ships, and you've just moved into position for a r3 shot. These are the average scenarios

The longshot case (atk vs def.): r3 on 5 dice ship (eg agi 3 + asteroid)
 4 vs. 5
you take an evade, you're rolling average 2 hits unmodified. In this case defender rolls 1.88 evades without focus. You take TL, trigger gunner, they've probably got focus still. That said, your expected damage is 0.6, so there's a chance you're going to force the focus burn anyways. Gunner kicks in, with TL you're rolling average 3 hits now. They will have to burn the focus to get up to average 3.15 evades. If they don't, you've got a 69% chance of hitting. They have a 63% chance of having a situation where that can burn the focus to avoid damage. so it's probably a miss, but they're open to getting hit by your wingmen, which is still a good result. In return, you will average 4.75 evades with a focus and evade, or 3.25 without a focus from your attack hitting. You may lose a shield to poor dice luck and focus fire this turn, but you're at closing distance for a r1 engagement, you could do this at least 8 or 9 times more in a game before your dice gave out, and you've got that vital TL with a high likelihood of not a scratch. A good result, you can disengage if you wish to get a better firing solution, that TL isn't going anywhere. For really nasty matchups, this is where you may wish to stay as much as possible.

result: they will take a hit and you focus cloak, or neither of you will take much damage this turn.

case 2: r3 on 4 dice
4 vs. 4
average 2 hits unmodified on 1.5 evades. 1/4 times you're forcing them to burn a focus or you token up to max strength with a TL. If they forget you have gunner, they burn the focus and you're going to have 3 average on 1.5. There's a 50% chance you force them to burn the token or take a hit, and if they chance it it's a bad move since you've got an 80% chance of hitting them with a TL on the next attack. They'll be eating a shield or hull or two. 

result: they will likely take a hit and you focus/cloak

case 3: r3 on 3
4 v 3
~40% chance you force them to burn a token to avoid the first shot, if they do you've got an 88% chance to hit on the next. If they don't you've still got a 71% chance of hitting

result: they will likely take a hit and you focus/cloak

case 4: r3 on 2
4v2
58% chance you force them to burn the token, if they do you've got a 94% chance of hitting, if they don't have to burn it you have an 88% chance of hitting them on the second shot.

result: they will likely take a hit and you focus/cloak

Analysis:
In all of the above scenarios, gunner basically guarantees that you're going to have a focus cloak at r3 unless you're pretty unlucky. And even then you're still going to take at worst 2 shields unless you're really unlucky in the face of focused fire, but that's going to be down to your tactical skill in positioning, which is just practice.

You want any of the above to happen because then this is where the tables turn rapidly. you move away, or if you spot an opening for a good attack run, close to range 2 or 1 if you can. If you think you can finish off a ship or cripple one that will be firing at you, take a focus. in all other cases, take the evade. 

for example, firing at an 2-dice opponent with a target lock, even if they have a focus, at range 1, on the bell curve you're doing 2 or 3 damage that turn. If you have a focus and spend it, that shifts roughly to 3 or 4 damage. So it's a judgement call, if you think that 1 extra damage on average will be worth it. I can't emphasize enough how you have to try and think about the slightly below average scenario in a phantom, because you will be punished mercilessly for a bad dice roll on defence.

Summary:
So this is why, even at range 1, in the middle of the game, I'm almost always taking the evade, unless the opportunity is perfect. You have an hour to do this. At nearly every range with gunner, I'm getting that focus for defence off whisper's ability. And almost always doing at least 1 damage a turn until the moment I decide to strike, and if my wingmen have done their job, we have this beautiful scenario:

Whisper with focus and TL, vs. defense 2 ship (bumping a barrel-rolled ps1 x7 defender) no focus or evade. 5v2 dice.

Expected Damage    3.94
Crit Chance 0.57
Expected Crits 0.78

If I've done my job well, (my wingmates have dropped the shields on that ship, whisper took 1 or 2, etc., probably at the cost of one of my own ships) that's a dead ship, almost every time. And if that's their ps9 ace, well, it may well be the swing point in the match. At this point you may have someone complaining about you being lucky for getting straight hits at a key moment, but they are wrong. You've only been playing the odds.

TL;DR: play your gunner phantom like a shark, nibble, dart away, nibble, dart away, nibble, nibble, CHOMP.

Edited by citruscannon

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Like the article

I love flying Whisper, especially enjoy using her with Kylo (usually with Vader as well).

 

 

My wife loves flying Dengar. It's not "that" bad.

If they get initiative you can usually arc dodge and limit him to "just" 3 dice attacks. With concentrated fire you can often get him before he takes out the 2 dice Whisper (evade actions help). Either way he will be very low health when you lose Whisper and the rest of the list can often get the result.

If I get initiative use cloaking for what cloaking does best... and trust the green dice (they sometimes work :-) ).

 

I like Whisper (and Echo) because you can do all sorts with the decloack. Often takes practice to get right though. 

 

I have beaten Nym/Miranda with Whisper (and Vader and Inq). It is very possible, but requires good flying and is VERY unforgiving if you make any kind of mistake.

If I know I am facing that type of list I find getting a LOT of modified red dice into the list really helps :-). 

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Great stuff! I love seeing so many tactical decisions about engagement and playing the odds! 

Does anyone have a .vlog of a match of a Whisper list vs. a Nym list? I'm just curious at seeing how that match plays out.

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Do you think there is something to try with a Sigma squad pilot (P3) with lightweight frame colision detector and recon specialist for 30 pts ?

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6 hours ago, player2422845 said:

Do you think there is something to try with a Sigma squad pilot (P3) with lightweight frame colision detector and recon specialist for 30 pts ?

Well you need to compare it to the rest upgrades phantoms can use.

With lightweight frame you have a potential evade when you defend, with particle accelerator you have a guaranteed evade. For that, I will always prefer the second option.

I ve been itching to try this squad.

Vessery + TIEx7 + swarm leader

2x Sigma + particle accelerator + gunner + collision detector

or drop the gunners for FCS and Ren crew and systems officer 

or sensor jammers and systems officer on one of them. 

Edited by tsondaboy

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3 hours ago, tsondaboy said:

Well you need to compare it to the rest upgrades phantoms can use.

With lightweight frame you have a potential evade when you defend, with particle accelerator you have a guaranteed evade. For that, I will always prefer the second option.

I ve been itching to try this squad.

Vessery + TIEx7 + swarm leader

2x Sigma + particle accelerator + gunner + collision detector

or drop the gunners for FCS and Ren crew and systems officer 

or sensor jammers and systems officer on one of them. 

With collision detector you have no one to supply Vessery with locks because phantoms don't have it in their action bar though... I would drop gunner down to rec spec and upgrade the collision detector to FCS. Then you have three ships with TL, Focus, Evade each turn. The turns that the sigmas don't need their evade to stay alive feed Squanch Leader.

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15 hours ago, player2422845 said:

Do you think there is something to try with a Sigma squad pilot (P3) with lightweight frame colision detector and recon specialist for 30 pts ?

Depends on the role you want for it. I find it's great as a blocker, moreso than the Styg., because you're liable to get shot at more than once in a turn. But it's an expensive blocker, an x7 will do a similar job for similar points and much better durability. But if you want a ship that will last a few rounds decloaked at the back end of a swarm, it's great with LWF. If you have something else that can carry damage on your squad, go for the Styg and disengage a lot. Either way though, don't sink too many points into it.

Edited by citruscannon

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17 hours ago, player2422845 said:

Do you think there is something to try with a Sigma squad pilot (P3) with lightweight frame colision detector and recon specialist for 30 pts ?

http://meta-wing.com/pilots/75?ranking_start=2016-12-15&

Short answer: no.  Sigma Squadron is a dreadful pilot, LWF seems to make it worse.  The best performing versions had FCS & Tactician.  But they were still rubbish.

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6 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

http://meta-wing.com/pilots/75?ranking_start=2016-12-15&

Short answer: no.  Sigma Squadron is a dreadful pilot, LWF seems to make it worse.  The best performing versions had FCS & Tactician.  But they were still rubbish.

I think this is pretty reasonable. I have flown both types a lot, and it really depends on how you fly the thing. If you're planning on letting it get shot more than once (which I don't advise), LWF does work very well when paired with recspec. But I should be clear, if I was going to try and field a tournament squad, LWF or not, I'm not going to take a sigma. There are much better choices for that many points to be had. 

Now on the other hand, if you're stubborn about flying 'pretty looking' squads no matter what, then to fly three phantoms and have one of them be echo or whisper you need to use the sigmas, and in this case I'd go Kylo ren on one, and fcs stygium on the other. You won't beat jumpmasters consistently, but you'll have a lot of fun regardless.

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6 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Funny how many of the bad matchups are high PS turrets with high HP, pseudo or real large base ships with tons of upgrade slots.  Wonder if that's a trend. 

Nah, phantoms are the only imperial ship that has trouble with those. Strikers do really well against high HP high PS PWTs. :mellow:

But let me digress: The dream.

Systems upgrade:
Phased Synchronization Gear (3)
TIE Phantom only.
You may perform attacks on Large ships while you have a cloak token.
After attacking, 
you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

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33 minutes ago, citruscannon said:

Nah, phantoms are the only imperial ship that has trouble with those. Strikers do really well against high HP high PS PWTs. :mellow:

But let me digress: The dream.

Systems upgrade:
Phased Synchronization Gear (3)
TIE Phantom only.
You may perform attacks on Large ships while you have a cloak token.
After attacking, 
you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

 

Systems upgrade:

PHased Unstable Control Unicron (PHUCU) (3)

TIE Phantom only.

When attacking, roll one additional attack die for each upgrade slot on the defending ship.

 

Seems fair to me.

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Member when Whisper and Echo were the only pilots you needed to win a tournament? Member? Ah, I member that...

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I have been toying with the idea of Whisper and Echo and adding Epsilon leader for K-turning Phantom goodness.

Could even add adv sensors to keep actions (although I'd miss FCS).

Not necessarily good, but could be amusing.

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