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Fippo

Generics, why do they exist?

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I have started to question generic pilots. Considering the typical squad size is between 2-4 ships, it would make alot more sense if all pilots had a name...

I think all pilots should have pilot abilities, but different amount of upgrade slots depending on PS.

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6 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Amongst other things, for fielding large groups of similar ships in Epic. You do *tilt* if every ship is different, and it takes AGES for every turn.

Bingo.

12 minutes ago, Fippo said:

I have started to question generic pilots.

Did you start by introducing yourself?

7 minutes ago, DaveRob said:

Hi I'm Roger, Academy Pilot. I am handy with a bucket and mop.

See, now he's got a name.  You just didn't ask. . . 

What's his last name, you say??

tumblr_lr6x3pvG1f1qdqf08o4_250.gif

Edited by Darth Meanie

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Ew, the classic TIE swarm with all named pilots and abilities...I don't have the brain power to run one of those lists with just regular generics.

Generics make sense for a variety of flavor reasons, and for the mechanics, it makes sense to have cheaper options with reduced capabilities. If FFG had to make pilot abilities for everyone while still having enough pilots for naked swarms or Epic play, they'd fast run out of good ideas and be stuck with bad ones or repeats*.

 

*Disclaimer: I am not saying bad pilot abilities and repeats aren't already in the game. I just think it would be more prevalent.

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The generics are the X-wing equivalents of the red shirts from Star Trek. NINJA'd

Seriously, you may build a squad around a single, high PS, high priced ship and have points left over. Depending on how you play and your local meta, it may make more sense to have two or three low PS generics rather than one more expensive, high PS ship. When Fat Turrets were a thing, it wasn't uncommon to see Han and three Bandits on the board.

You don't have to fill every upgrade slot either. Points spent on torps or missiles could be spent on another ship used as a blocker. Forcing an opponent to bump and lose an action can be a big aid in winning a game.

 

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If we didn't have generics we couldn't have triple contracted scouts. Also, generics have been point efficient jousters and blockers in the past with 4BZ and TIE swarms. Also, TLT carriers with 4 Y-Wings or Aggressors.  So there is use for generics. Also, for non-tournament >100 point lists generics are simpler to handle for epic games.

Edited by mdl0114

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12 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

If we didn't have generics we couldn't have triple contracted scouts. Also, generics have been point efficient jousters and blockers in the past with 4BZ and TIE swarms. Also, TLT carriers with 4 Y-Wings or Aggressors.  So there is use for generics. Also, for non-tournament >100 point lists generics are simpler to handle for epic games.

And don't forget the inevitable GUNBOAT alpha strike of imperial glory.

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4 minutes ago, Warlon said:

And don't forget the inevitable GUNBOAT alpha strike of imperial glory.

I am going to happily buy 4 gunboats, because I still love TIE Fighter, and they might make for an ok alpha strike list that isn't triple jumpmasters or scurrgs.  They aren't out yet though, so we'll have to wait and see.

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I almost never don’t fly generics! As a RPG player, I love having characters who don’t have a name, so that I can make up whatever story I want for them! Once a character has a long Wookieepedia page dictating exactly who they are, I get all worried about what is and isn’t thematic, and it starts to bother me. So I really like to fly a whole bunch of Black Squadron Pilots and give each one a different EPT and then imagine a personality for each one, based on the EPT! 

Generics rock! Please don’t get rid of them!

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1 minute ago, Kieransi said:

I almost never don’t fly generics! As a RPG player, I love having characters who don’t have a name, so that I can make up whatever story I want for them! Once a character has a long Wookieepedia page dictating exactly who they are, I get all worried about what is and isn’t thematic, and it starts to bother me. So I really like to fly a whole bunch of Black Squadron Pilots and give each one a different EPT and then imagine a personality for each one, based on the EPT! 

Generics rock! Please don’t get rid of them!

I totally get what you're saying. I guess that is a blessing about the made up unique pilots like Omega Leader or Red Ace. When coming up with a narrative in my head, it's easier to do what I want with characters who I make up myself or are less defined.

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Are you asking why generics exist in the game... Or, are you asking why you would want to include them in a competitive list for 100/6 tournament use?  These are two very different questions.

 

1. Generics exist because the universe is filled with nameless rabble/average Joes.  Named pilots are heroes and considered "unique" within the game because... well... they are rare and unique in the universe (at least they are everywhere besides your typical XWM 100 point tournament list.  

2. They exist within the game because they are the cheapest version of a given ship.  The lower the cost... the more you can buy.  As Joe Stalin once said..."quantity has a quality all its own" (or words to that effect).

3. Is a unique pilot with special skills but twice the cost of a generic pilot in the same ship really twice as good?  Sometimes Yes... and sometimes No.  

4. Generic pilots are also easier to fly, as you do not have to worry about complicated interactions of special skills/abilities, sequencing, etc...  Just fly and hope your gamble at "going cheap" pays off.

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4 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Ew, the classic TIE swarm with all named pilots and abilities...I don't have the brain power to run one of those lists with just regular generics.

Generics make sense for a variety of flavor reasons, and for the mechanics, it makes sense to have cheaper options with reduced capabilities. If FFG had to make pilot abilities for everyone while still having enough pilots for naked swarms or Epic play, they'd fast run out of good ideas and be stuck with bad ones or repeats*.

 

*Disclaimer: I am not saying bad pilot abilities and repeats aren't already in the game. I just think it would be more prevalent.

All named TIEs is my kind of TIE swarm.

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Generics started being phased out when three things started happening:

1. Pilot abilities started getting really, really good. Until wave 7 the best abilities were Dash or maybe Howlrunner. Then you got Miranda, Dengar, Manaroo, etc.

2. People started realising how much the EPT slot did for a ship. Predator alone often doubles your damage output from every shot you fire. Even Snap Shot is a big boost in firepower.

3. As attacks became more and more powerful (probably culminating with either Dengar, Rey or Miranda homing missiles), the PS war became more and more important. At this point, taking a squad of generics that aren't on the calibre of Defenders, Ghosts or Decimators means that one of them will die before shooting, and possibly more in the case of TIEs and such.

There are a few ways to fix generics. The most obvious is by making them cheaper, but in tournaments it's just not feasible to play 10+ TIE fighters over 8 hours. You could also:

1. Give generics a large jousting buff. Something along the lines of "Non-Unique pilot only. Small ship only. | When attacking a target inside your firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a [focus] result" would bring most generics in line with the power curve.

2. Make reinforcements a core mechanic for the game. Something along the lines of "If at least 1 friendly non-unique ship was destroyed this last turn, you may deploy 1 PS1 z-95/Scyk/TIE fighter (faction dependent) inside your setup area outside range 3 of all ships already in play". This would mean that swarms lose via attrition a lot slower, and maintain a lot more firepower after being PS-sniped.

As-is, there is almost never a good reason to take a non-ghost generic over a named pilot with an EPT.

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