GrimmyV

Plot armour mechanics

31 posts in this topic

42 minutes ago, Elavion said:

 

I hate to break it to you, but the Force literally is magic. And SW was never a scifi show, it's a science fantasy.

 

And I do agree that putting magic in scifi is lazy writing in a way, but it does have it's charm.

I prefer the terms space fantasy or space opera.  Or just The Saga.

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1 hour ago, Elavion said:

 

I hate to break it to you, but the Force literally is magic. And SW was never a scifi show, it's a science fantasy.

 

And I do agree that putting magic in scifi is lazy writing in a way, but it does have it's charm.

My problem isn't that the force can be used to explain everything, heck, TFA makes fun of that with the banter between Han and Finn on starkiller base. My issue is that why have ace pilots, highly trained soldiers and what not when "da force" can just decide to make all that training an experience useless. Is the Force good? Because because it seems to aid the good guys a lot. But if that's the case, why does it not do it earlier and allow whatever shmuck to stop Anakin from becoming Darth Vader?

There's just no explanations, and when the majority of the story is revolved around it, it's a bad thing.

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6 hours ago, Warlon said:

My problem isn't that the force can be used to explain everything, heck, TFA makes fun of that with the banter between Han and Finn on starkiller base. My issue is that why have ace pilots, highly trained soldiers and what not when "da force" can just decide to make all that training an experience useless. Is the Force good? Because because it seems to aid the good guys a lot. But if that's the case, why does it not do it earlier and allow whatever shmuck to stop Anakin from becoming Darth Vader?

There's just no explanations, and when the majority of the story is revolved around it, it's a bad thing.

Considering the fact that "bringing balance to the Force" involved slaughtering countless Jedi until there were only two (to balance out two Sith), I would guess the Force as a whole is amoral, at best.

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11 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

I prefer the terms space fantasy or space opera.  Or just The Saga.

 

I have to disagree on space opera. There are some works in the genre that have nothing to do with fantasy and are actually rather hard scifi (example: "The Expanse". A great series btw)

 

Space Fantasy is a lot closer, though mashups of scifi and fantasy that have nothing to do with space exist too :P (example: "Artemis Fowl")

 

To the best of my knowledge, saga is just a name for a series of works related to each other, usually used when more than 3 or 4 movies/books/etc exist and has nothing to do with the actual content of them.

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10 hours ago, Warlon said:

My problem isn't that the force can be used to explain everything, heck, TFA makes fun of that with the banter between Han and Finn on starkiller base. My issue is that why have ace pilots, highly trained soldiers and what not when "da force" can just decide to make all that training an experience useless. Is the Force good? Because because it seems to aid the good guys a lot. But if that's the case, why does it not do it earlier and allow whatever shmuck to stop Anakin from becoming Darth Vader?

There's just no explanations, and when the majority of the story is revolved around it, it's a bad thing.

I don't think The Force has ever been established as a sentient entity, or as something that has a will or an agenda, that wants things to happen. It doesn't seem to work like that. It's not a god. It doesn't need believers, temples or prayers. It just exists in the galaxy everywhere, like matter does. 


It's more like a neutral medium that reacts to the emotions of the living things and can affect them back. A few can tune in with the Force to their advantage, but most can't or not at a level that makes a difference in their lives.
The Force doesn't always aid the good guys, as far as I know. It just flows and reacts to things happening around. In fact, the Force is dangerous because if used uncarefully, it can lead the user to loose control on themselves and fall into the Dark Side, that for me it has always looked like some kind of addiction to get your will thru by abusing the Force.

Anakin is a good guy in the prequels, and the Force definitely doesn't help him to remain so. Once he starts wanting to "make things work" (avenging her mother, ending corruption in the senate, etc) by forcing them to happen with his powers, he loses himself to the Dark Side. Some think that Palpatine made him fall into the Dark Side during the fight scene with Mace Windu, but the truth is that Anakin never considered wrong to force his point of view into others by the means of the Force, as he explains himself to Padme in Episode II.

The Force isn't good or evil. It's like wondering if air is good or evil after watching the news about the hurricanes. Using the Force for good is good, and using the Force for evil is evil.

When in TFA Finn says "But we have The Force in our side, right?", Han answers to that "That's not how it works!".
The Force isn't actively guiding the actions of the good guys, and misguiding the actions of the bad guys.
Even when it helps Luke at being better at piloting, it's not because the Force wants so. It's because Luke is able to get some advantage from it (like improved reflexes and even perhaps some premonition). Wedge is better pilot than Luke because he doesn't need those "cheats" to be good.

Edited by Azrapse
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17 minutes ago, Elavion said:

 

I have to disagree on space opera. There are some works in the genre that have nothing to do with fantasy and are actually rather hard scifi (example: "The Expanse". A great series btw)

 

Space Fantasy is a lot closer, though mashups of scifi and fantasy that have nothing to do with space exist too :P (example: "Artemis Fowl")

 

To the best of my knowledge, saga is just a name for a series of works related to each other, usually used when more than 3 or 4 movies/books/etc exist and has nothing to do with the actual content of them.

Space Fantasy was how Marvel Comics described SW in its comics back in the 70s/80s.  So that’s good enough for me.

also there is zero science in SW.  there’s no attempt at explaining anything (except midichlorians......sigh), it all just works and that’s that.  Sometimes technology is actually powered by magic crystals, a sure sign we are not in the real of hard sci fi.  

Starfighter Pilots use open face motorcycle helmets, space ships make airplane maneuvers in space, sound and explosions in space, energy weapons emit subsonic visible light blasts, space craft can crash into swamps and still be operational, basically being cars in space, etc, etc, etc....

 

I love the setting, I love the little plastic toys, I love the story and characters, I don’t need I, Robot or Rendezvous with Rama or Stranger in a Strange Land, just give me my first love with asploding pew pew swashbuckling laser swords.

if you want something slightly more into hard sci fi then there’s always Star Trek with its technobabble and social commentaries and allegories. 

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