Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
django042

Lockpicks

26 posts in this topic

If i investigate using lockicks and commit moonlight ritual, does it add +1 or +2 to the skill test?

Moonlight ritual has an INT icon, so i can commit it to the test. It also has a Speed icon and per skill test timing, the final value is determined in ST.6, long after commiting any cards.

However, i think lockpicks resolves before any cards are commited, so it only adds your base speed to the test, while any further boosts are ignored.

How about talent cards like "hard knocks"? Can they boost speed before "lockpicks" resolve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost positive the answer is only agility counts. Otherwise, everyone would take lockpicks because you'd get to use both. You can boost your agility via hard knocks or committed cards, but not int.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Soakman said:

Almost positive the answer is only agility counts. Otherwise, everyone would take lockpicks because you'd get to use both. You can boost your agility via hard knocks or committed cards, but not int.

I think you got that backwards. Lockpicks is an Investigate test and as such, you commit cards to boost Intellect. Per the rules, only matching icons and wilds are counted. However, there are player windows to trigger Hard Knocks to boost Agility as well.

I'm confused by OP's statement "i think lockpicks resolves before any cards are commited". Not sure what he means but this is definitely incorrect.

rsdockery likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Network57 said:

I think you got that backwards. Lockpicks is an Investigate test and as such, you commit cards to boost Intellect. Per the rules, only matching icons and wilds are counted. However, there are player windows to trigger Hard Knocks to boost Agility as well.

I'm confused by OP's statement "i think lockpicks resolves before any cards are commited". Not sure what he means but this is definitely incorrect.

I agree, you can commit   cards with Intellect or wild to boost this check.

You can use abilities that boost your Intellect or Agility as well.

You cannot commit cards with agility to this check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rules reference is pretty clear that a skill test has a skill its testing. It's also pretty clear that you can only commit cards for the test's determined skill. Icons for other tests do not apply.

Lockpicks itself tells you you're adding your agility value to the skill test so it's still an intellect test meaning the agility value is added at the step when modifiers are applied after the token gets drawn and that skill icons for agility from commited cards to not apply.

The agility value gets added to your intelligence after the player windows so you could pump it with scapper if you were wendy or lola

Edited by Donel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AsahinaMaebure said:

St. 5 of the timing says to "apply all active modifiers, including the appropriate icons that have been committed to this test," which would modify the Agility attribute.

From earlier in the skill test block:

An appropriate skill icon is either one that matches the skill being tested, or a wild icon.

Committing skill cards does not add all icons on those cards to all the matching attributes.  It explicitly only adds +1 for each icon which matches the skill being tested, or wild.

If you have other abilities which improve agility they'll help, but skill cards won't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AsahinaMaebure said:

This is a murky topic. From the rules and specific breakdown on the timing, https://arkhamdb.com/rules#Skill_Test_Timing , you could go either way on deciding if it would modify both base skill abilities. St. 5 of the timing says to "apply all active modifiers, including the appropriate icons that have been committed to this test," which would modify the Agility attribute. It may come down to a 'Grim Rule' call where you are forced to go with the least favorable rule.

Not a Grim Rule case. Very explicitly clarified in the RR as has been cited here by multiple posters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No hostility intended. Just pointing out that the correct supported ruling had been cited here. The Grim Rule only exists for cases during gameplay when you're unable to locate or look up the ruling. Apologies if you interpreted that as hostile.

Khudzlin likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Network57 said:

I think you got that backwards. Lockpicks is an Investigate test and as such, you commit cards to boost Intellect. Per the rules, only matching icons and wilds are counted. However, there are player windows to trigger Hard Knocks to boost Agility as well.

I'm confused by OP's statement "i think lockpicks resolves before any cards are commited". Not sure what he means but this is definitely incorrect.

Oh wow. I wasn't looking at the card, and I thought these were worded completely differently... I thought it said to use agility for the investigate check instead of intellect... but you actually add agility TO your already added intelligence. Yikes! That's pretty much way better than I thought it was.

Network57 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Soakman said:

Oh wow. I wasn't looking at the card, and I thought these were worded completely differently... I thought it said to use agility for the investigate check instead of intellect... but you actually add agility TO your already added intelligence. Yikes! That's pretty much way better than I thought it was.

Lockpicks are awesome, except for the "exhaust" part.  That's a real limitation, but they'd probably be super OP otherwise.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Lockpicks are awesome, except for the "exhaust" part.  That's a real limitation, but they'd probably be super OP otherwise.

 

I was thinking they were only really worthwhile on someone with like 4 agility... turns out they're useful even if your intellect is higher than your agility (at that point, you may not need them though).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Soakman said:

I was thinking they were only really worthwhile on someone with like 4 agility... turns out they're useful even if your intellect is higher than your agility (at that point, you may not need them though).

They are good enough that any character able to run them, probably should be running them, granted that is currently limited to 'Skids' O'Toole, Wendy Adams, Jenny Barnes, Sefina Rousseau, and Lola Hayes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Soakman said:

I was thinking they were only really worthwhile on someone with like 4 agility... turns out they're useful even if your intellect is higher than your agility (at that point, you may not need them though).

Anyone who can take them gets at least a+3 out of it.  Skids goes from 2 to 6, Jenny, Lola, and Sefina go from 3 to 6, and Wendy from 3 to 7.

I'm actually surprised at the lukewarm reception this card has gotten.  A repeatable, reliable +3 to investigate seems really solid even if it's only once per turn.

Soakman, rsdockery and General Zodd like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Buhallin said:

Anyone who can take them gets at least a+3 out of it.  Skids goes from 2 to 6, Jenny, Lola, and Sefina go from 3 to 6, and Wendy from 3 to 7.

I'm actually surprised at the lukewarm reception this card has gotten.  A repeatable, reliable +3 to investigate seems really solid even if it's only once per turn.

Not to mention the very real possibility that you don't even have to spend a supply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Anyone who can take them gets at least a+3 out of it.  Skids goes from 2 to 6, Jenny, Lola, and Sefina go from 3 to 6, and Wendy from 3 to 7.

I'm actually surprised at the lukewarm reception this card has gotten.  A repeatable, reliable +3 to investigate seems really solid even if it's only once per turn.

Yeah, I was thinking forward to future investigators that may be able to include a more general selection Rogue Lvl 1 cards (sort of like the dunwich 5 lvl 0 any class cards). Even if a seeker could include lockpicks, it still might not be a bad addition to the deck (though a flashlight or something could be just as handy).

Edited by Soakman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do like them on Wendy very much.  7 to investigate is fantastic.  

I like them less on Skids and Jenny because these characters are often going to want to use 2 handed weapons, so you have to make a choice of what you want to use.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mwmcintyre said:

Not to mention the very real possibility that you don't even have to spend a supply.

I guess that’s what Daring Maneuver is for, to extend the life of Lockpicks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, cheapmate said:

I guess that’s what Daring Maneuver is for, to extend the life of Lockpicks.

Or to guarantee a success by two or more for any skill check as a number of rogue cards have additional benefits tied to that condition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mwmcintyre said:

Or to guarantee a success by two or more for any skill check as a number of rogue cards have additional benefits tied to that condition.

Or as one of Rex's out-of-class cards (I've been using it to pick up extra clues when he otherwise would not).

rsdockery, cheapmate and mwmcintyre like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Soakman said:

Or as one of Rex's out-of-class cards (I've been using it to pick up extra clues when he otherwise would not).

Alas, as a Level 1 card, Rex can't have it in his off-class splash. Probably for the best, that guy doesn't need any more help finding clues! 😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, General Zodd said:

Alas, as a Level 1 card, Rex can't have it in his off-class splash. Probably for the best, that guy doesn't need any more help finding clues! 😉

Yeah, sorry it was a bit off-topic, but as someone had brought up other uses of Daring Maneuver and nobody had mentioned Rex, I thought I would.

 

Lockpicks are great, but yes, they aren't available as a splash right now for most investigators (but you never know down the line...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0