GrandSpleen

Leadership Eomer

24 posts in this topic

This guy: 

%C3%89omer.jpg

There are a couple of decks built for him already on ringsdb.  What would you build with him in order to take best advantage of his ability? 

Battle-fury is a nice combo that I've heard mentioned. It's very expensive (1 tactics, 1spirit, and 1 leadership resource), but you could use that to attack an enemy engaged with you ("any eligible target") or another player if you get ranged onto Eomer, then use his ability to attack an enemy in the staging area.

Late Adventurer is a good card for Eomer. If you combine it with Don't Be Hasty, you can double up on his ability. 

Pushing enemies back into the staging area is possible and, recently, even reliable with Fastred, but I can't see the benefit for doing so (other than Fastred's threat decrease).

Otherwise, you can seek to keep the enemies in the staging area with low threat in solo. In multiplayer you would need to rely on card effects like Noiseless Movement.

What are your thoughts on this guy?

Edited by GrandSpleen

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6 minutes ago, GrandSpleen said:

What are your thoughts on this guy?

Pretty lame. They worried too much about action on enemy other that fight. It is pretty hard to let a enemy stay in the staging area, especially without a high threat like Eomer. The fact that you have to pay one to do his ability really cost a lot in a long-term view and won't be able to kill major part of enemies.

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I've been using a fellowship featuring him for quite some time. Between Guthwine and Firefoot, he can attack for a respectable 7, perhaps up to 10 with multiple copies of Dunedain Mark.

You could use him to whittle down boss enemies with less than 7 defense if you want. I generally tend to use it against small or medium enemies to enable Fastred's threat reduction. Fastred blocks an attack between 3 and 5, depending on defensive attachments (I like raiment of war and Arwen, even if I exclude the latter for thematic reasons). Reduce threat by 2, send the enemy back to the staging area,  and kill it with Eomer during the next quest phase. While you're at it,  if the returned enemy is something innocuous, you have plenty of spillover damage to deal with Firefoot.

Is it super powerful? No, probably not.  But it's not useless. And with Steward of Gondor, he doesn't have a resource issue. I also tend to run legacy of numenor as well - Fastred can counter the doomed cost pretty well.

I also pair him with loads of cheap rohan allies, many with discard effects. I suspect Ride Them Down would combo pretty well there.

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I will explain more my point of view about Eomer.

He have an ability who request from him to go in quest. But he only have 1 willpower. It is not very efficient. Get one attack and quest on the same time can be good, but it cost also 1 resource, need that the enemy stay on the staging area and can only made by him with his 3 attack.

When you compare to Dunhere you have to pay 1 each turn, get one turn delay and suffer a +2 threat (very important when you want enemy to stay in the staging area) for only get 1 quest :/. And even dunhere is definitively not a top tier hero.

OlorinCZ likes this

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Grappling Hook is probably his best combo card. Quest for 3 (or more) and bash an enemy right after they are revealed.

Edited by donkler

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I share in the disappointment with yet another Rohan hero with a quest-based response and 1 measly willpower. I will say that he is *amazing* in battle quests. I want to make a Rohan deck to go back and crush the Heirs of Numenor scenarios.

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30 minutes ago, danpoage said:

I share in the disappointment with yet another Rohan hero with a quest-based response and 1 measly willpower. I will say that he is *amazing* in battle quests. I want to make a Rohan deck to go back and crush the Heirs of Numenor scenarios.

Theodred was one of the best hero at the start of the game and stay a playable hero as it is. Gaining resources and have a low beginning threat are two great things. If he have a big willpower stats he will be one of the top hero of the game. And make it a 9 or 10 threat will change many things about secrecy at the start of the game because, even now, he is one of the few heroes of the leadership who can fit it a secrecy concept (we can build a mono sphere secrecy deck with each sphere but leadership who can't get under 24 0_o).

So even if I understand the point I don't fully agree :).

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@Rouxxor, I think you may be misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that Theodred is a bad hero - to the contrary he is one of the better heroes in the Core Set. There are very good reasons why I included him in my deck for Beorn's Path. I'm also not saying that he should have an increased threat cost - 8 is exactly where he needs to be. I am saying that I wish that he was 2 willpower, 2 attack, 0 defense and 4 hit points. My disappointment was that 1 willpower is not at all efficient for the action that you are spending - and you almost always want to spend his action to quest. I feel this same disappointment about leadership Eomer. I like the ability (though I agree with @Gizlivadi that I wish it had been switched with the ability on his sword), I just find it disappointing when heroes with 1 willpower have abilities tied to their committing to the quest. I did not think that was a controversial perspective, but I'm happy to argue my point in greater detail if need be.

Edited by danpoage

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38 minutes ago, danpoage said:

I just find it disappointing when heroes with 1 willpower have abilities tied to their committing to the quest.

Fully agree.

And yet, I think LdEomer's ability synergizes best with committing to the quest out of all of the 1 WP heroes with questing abilities. With sufficient attack power, he's not only contributing 1 measly willpower, he's also removing X threat from the staging area as well. It's like being able to Quick Strike Dunhere during staging every round. (And it costs the same amount of resources as Quick Striking Dunhere, too).

As mentioned, Battle Questing just compounds his effectiveness.

That said, do you know what I really wish? Switching his sword's ability with his printed text would be nice, but I would far prefer it if the Leadership and Tactics versions had had their abilities switched. That way, Tactics Eomer could derive benefit from being paired with Tactics Theoden. 2 WP towards the quest plus attacking into the staging area would make it much easier to stomach.

 

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Should add - not disagreeing about being disappointed with WP 1 and a questing ability - just looking for silver linings, if there are any.

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1 hour ago, danpoage said:

@Rouxxor, I think you may be misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that Theodred is a bad hero - to the contrary he is one of the better heroes in the Core Set. There are very good reasons why I included him in my deck for Beorn's Path. I'm also not saying that he should have an increased threat cost - 8 is exactly where he needs to be. I am saying that I wish that he was 2 willpower, 2 attack, 0 defense and 4 hit points. My disappointment was that 1 willpower is not at all efficient for the action that you are spending - and you almost always want to spend his action to quest. I feel this same disappointment about leadership Eomer. I like the ability (though I agree with @Gizlivadi that I wish it had been switched with the ability on his sword), I just find it disappointing when heroes with 1 willpower have abilities tied to their committing to the quest. I did not think that was a controversial perspective, but I'm happy to argue my point in greater detail if need be.

According him 1 willpower instead of a almost useless defense point is a great boost. It is pretty good to boost a card who is not good enough, it make it more playable and increase the diversity of the game. If the cards is already played a boost make it even more played, so it decrease the diversity, who is bad to the game. That why I make a connection between "need to have more willpower" to "Theodred is not good enough".

And that is why, even if  I probably could be happy at the very moment they announced a Theodred with 2 willpower I prefer not to: it make the game even more profound. And that is also because you have to choose between using Theodred best stats (attack) or having the resources. And some time you just need too much this 2 attack. It is frustrating but better for the game to my opinion.

But I'm totally okay that making Eomer with 2 willpower will have be better. As he is printed I found it is pretty hard to use. But according him the ability of guthwine is very too much powerful. He will become my best hero in rohan deck, not for attacking in staging area but only because of the power level of raising Eomund each turn.

 

And yet, I think LdEomer's ability synergizes best with committing to the quest out of all of the 1 WP heroes with questing abilities. With sufficient attack power, he's not only contributing 1 measly willpower, he's also removing X threat from the staging area as well. It's like being able to Quick Strike Dunhere during staging every round. (And it costs the same amount of resources as Quick Striking Dunhere, too).

25 minutes ago, Onidsen said:

And yet, I think LdEomer's ability synergizes best with committing to the quest out of all of the 1 WP heroes with questing abilities. With sufficient attack power, he's not only contributing 1 measly willpower, he's also removing X threat from the staging area as well. It's like being able to Quick Strike Dunhere during staging every round. (And it costs the same amount of resources as Quick Striking Dunhere, too).

All that you say will have be true if LdEomer can attack enemy who are revealed on the same reinforcement he engage. But he don't.

He does exactly the same as Dunhere: attacking to the staging area  but only after letting an opportunity to the enemy to engage you. Wether it is in combat phase or quest phase is not what is the most important (but it is slighty better in quest phase I agree, because that mean you don't have to keep it unused if no enemies came out). What they do is not removing threat to staging area (not more that anyone who attack enemy, wether it is in staging area or not) but avoid blocking this enemy. This is pretty useful but only work if you can afford to engage him.

So we almost only pay that 1 resource to put 1 willpower on the quest each turn. That is very over costed.

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I think Theodred's ability synergizes best with questing of the one-wp questers (Theodred, Thalin, SpLegolas, LeEomer).  For several reasons:

1) Getting a resource is *always* useful, while the other effects aren't always useful.

2) At 2 attack and 1 defense, he's not that useful for combat anyway.

3) His timing is perfect for enabling LeAragorn or LeEomer's questing ability, and in combination with Heir of Mardil he can ready any Noble quester -- there's a *ton* of those who would be useful for questing and outside questing.

Still, I'd prefer if questing powers were associated with heroes that are 2-willpower, like Hirgon.

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1 minute ago, dalestephenson said:

I think Theodred's ability synergizes best with questing of the one-wp questers (Theodred, Thalin, SpLegolas, LeEomer).  For several reasons:

1) Getting a resource is *always* useful, while the other effects aren't always useful.

2) At 2 attack and 1 defense, he's not that useful for combat anyway.

3) His timing is perfect for enabling LeAragorn or LeEomer's questing ability, and in combination with Heir of Mardil he can ready any Noble quester -- there's a *ton* of those who would be useful for questing and outside questing.

Still, I'd prefer if questing powers were associated with heroes that are 2-willpower, like Hirgon.

I think that Theodred's is the best (most useful) of the 1-wp questers' abilities. Maybe synergize wasn't the best word to describe what I was trying to get at.

If I can kill an enemy in the staging area with Eomer, he is effectively questing for 1 willpower + the threat of the destroyed enemy. That's the meaning I was trying to get across. None of the other 1 wp questers abilities are linked with making my questing more effective (Except for Thalin when there are 1 HP enemies or in conjunction with Fresh Tracks/Expecting Mischief/other Direct Damage to Staging Area stuff). Theodred's ability is more useful overall (for all the reasons you mention), but Eomer's ability is most closely linked to the action you have to do to trigger it, if that makes any sense.

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If I can kill an enemy in the staging area with Eomer, he is effectively questing for 1 willpower + the threat of the destroyed enemy. That's the meaning I was trying to get across. None of the other 1 wp questers abilities are linked with making my questing more effective (Except for Thalin when there are 1 HP enemies or in conjunction with Fresh Tracks/Expecting Mischief/other Direct Damage to Staging Area stuff). Theodred's ability is more useful overall (for all the reasons you mention), but Eomer's ability is most closely linked to the action you have to do to trigger it, if that makes any sense.

I disagree with that because a "normal" hero who attack will also remove that threat from staging area. It will only not be during the quest phase (but will count for the same quest phase). But with TaBoromir I will engage, block and kill that enemy so it will remove threat from the staging area. Every fighting hero does that. It is not related to questing but to the fight. So to me he is not more related to questing that a LeAraragorn for example who ready and so deal with further enemies.

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3 hours ago, monkeyrama said:

Or Late Adventurer, after an enemy is revealed? :D

Late Adventurer and Grappling Hook are natural includes for LeEomer (if you have a sphere match), but they're both 1-time effects.  For LeEomer to be awesome you need a repeatable way to commit to the quest *after* enemies are revealed, and there's currently no way to do that for non-hobbits.

LeEomer might not be bad in a Strider deck.  With two heroes it'd be easier to leave enemies in staging, he wouldn't exhaust to quest, and he'd get +2 willpower until there's six characters.

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This is true. Well, sooner or later (it seems) all traits will be shareable. I'm not totally mad at LeEomer, but mostly only because he's in my Saga decks, and he has some upgrades in them to make him a bit more potent. Could be interesting, but not a top tier hero. Nice to have more Leadership Rohan though.

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I'm actually disappointed that the recent Ranger/Scout/Warrior cards are confined to heroes, though I do like that they replace themselves.  I don't expect rarer traits like Steward or Craftsman to get the same treatment.  Maybe a similar card granting Noble status will come out?

I'm not expecting any Elf-friend equivalents for Hobbit or Dwarf, though they certainly could be useful.  We have character granting for Elf/Gondor/Rohan, plus a Gondor-ally-to-Outlands attachment -- the only further tribal grant I expect to see is Dunedain, and I'd be surprised if it's not a unique artifact that can only attach to heroes.

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46 minutes ago, dalestephenson said:

I'm actually disappointed that the recent Ranger/Scout/Warrior cards are confined to heroes, though I do like that they replace themselves.  I don't expect rarer traits like Steward or Craftsman to get the same treatment.  Maybe a similar card granting Noble status will come out?

I'd be astonished if it doesn't - so far this cycle we have a Tactics Warrior attachment, a Lore Ranger attachment, and a Spirit Scout attachment; all we need is a Leadership Noble attachment to correspond exactly to the four trait-specific attachments from the Ring-maker cycle.

Onidsen and Kakita Shiro like this

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I like your logic.  So assuming we have Noble/Heir of Mardil attachments, which non-noble heroes does that enable?  Built-in effects for Bifur and Mablung, anyone with Theodred, Gondorians with LeDenethor (current non-noble Gondorians are  both Beregonds, Caldara, Damrod, Hirgon, Mablung) and Aragorn/Noldor with Arwen (current non-nobles are LoAragorn, TaAragorn, Erestor, Galdor).  Aside from Steward of Gondor, the attachments that would be especially useful for Noble/Heir of Mardil combo would be Sword of Numenor (Dunedain/Gondor) , Dwarven Shield (Dwarf), Day's Rising (Sentinel), Gandalf's Staff and the upcoming Magic Ring.

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So, @DezzyBassist gave me an interesting idea - what if we used Galadriel to boost Eomer's willpower while questing with nenya, and then used Herugrim with it to boost his attack? That's 8 attack without any other attachments. I've put together a quick deck for that in the deck-building forum, and I think it might have potential.

Gizlivadi, tomtom and Authraw like this

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