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Unlimited Power -- Sourcebook for Mystics

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6 hours ago, Absol197 said:

Unleashed Power:  For each [LS][LS] generated on a Force power check affected by Unmatched Destiny, add automatic [LS] to the check.  For each [DS][DS] generated, add automatic [DS] to the check.

The way it's written, it doesn't even look like you just limit it to what's rolled. A dark side user with Channel Agony 3 and a Corrupted Crystal in the lightsaber normally gets 4 DS in addition to the roll. With this, they get +2 DS here and another extra DS for every full two the roll generates.

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9 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

The way it's written, it doesn't even look like you just limit it to what's rolled. A dark side user with Channel Agony 3 and a Corrupted Crystal in the lightsaber normally gets 4 DS in addition to the roll. With this, they get +2 DS here and another extra DS for every full two the roll generates.

I just realized what a good point of comparison would be: the Overwhelm Emotions talent, from the F-S Exile.  If we compare the verbiage on how it generates the extra Successes/Failures on social checks, we can determine how Unleashed Power is generating extra points.  Obviously, Overwhelm Emotions doesn't care about which dice generate the symbols, only the total pips generated, so if the verbiage is the same, we have our answer.

Can someone take a look?  I'm not with me books right now.  If no one gets to it before my lunch in a few hours, I'll stop by home and take a peek.

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What follows is wholly subjective and rooted in personal aesthetic tastes.

I love the makashi and seer archetypes and have happily used them as the basis of a character I enjoyed playing.

But this book, which I waited a long time for, was simply not for me.

This it seemed too heavily slanted towards space fantasy / D&D in space for my tastes.

Potions, conjuring, and ritualized force-witch style powers cross beyond the aesthetic of how Star Wars feels to me.

These elements, too varying degrees, do appear in the expanded universe, and people who want them should enjoy.

But this book vibed too fantasy and too magical for me; more "force wizard" than "mystic warrior."

That said, there are lots of neat bits in this book and the production values are, as always, fantastic.

For instance, the prophecy tree is interesting from a narrative "drive the story" sort of way.

The completist in me is happy to have it on the shelf, but most of it will never make an appearance in my games.

If I want to quaf a potion, conjure an object, or use rituals for magical effects I'll play D&D.

Others will, of course, disagree. 

 

Edited by Vondy

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2 minutes ago, Vondy said:

What follows is wholly subjective and rooted in personal aesthetic tastes.

I love the makashi and seer archetypes and have happily used them as the basis of a character I enjoyed playing.

But this book, which I waited a long time for, was simply not for me.

This it seemed too heavily slanted towards space fantasy / D&D in space for my tastes.

Potions, conjuring, and ritualized force-witch style powers cross beyond the aesthetic of how Star Wars feels to me.

These elements, too varying degrees, do appear in the expanded universe, and people who want them should enjoy.

But this book vibed too fantasy and too magical for me; more "force wizard" than "mystic warrior."

That said, there are lots of neat bits in this book and the production values are, as always, fantastic.

For instance, the prophecy tree is interesting from a narrative "drive the story" sort of way.

The completist in me is happy to have it on the shelf, but most of it will never make an appearance in my games.

But potions, conjuring, and ritualized force-power use is not very "Jedi" to me. If I want them, I'll play a FRPG.

Others will, of course, disagree. 

 

They don't just appear in the EU/Legends. They also appear in the new Canon, particularly in Clone Wars and Rebels, with the Nightsisters of Dathomir. 

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1 hour ago, Absol197 said:

I just realized what a good point of comparison would be: the Overwhelm Emotions talent, from the F-S Exile.  If we compare the verbiage on how it generates the extra Successes/Failures on social checks, we can determine how Unleashed Power is generating extra points.  Obviously, Overwhelm Emotions doesn't care about which dice generate the symbols, only the total pips generated, so if the verbiage is the same, we have our answer.

Can someone take a look?  I'm not with me books right now.  If no one gets to it before my lunch in a few hours, I'll stop by home and take a peek.

“When the character performs a Charm, Coercion, or Deception check, he may include [FD] equal to his Force rating. Each [LSP] adds [SUC] to Charm checks. Each [DSP] adds [SUC] to Coercion or Deception checks. However, every [LSP][LSP] add [FAIL] to Coercion or Deception checks, and every [DSP][DSP] add [FAIL] to Charm checks. This does not apply to targets immune to Force powers.”

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Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

They don't just appear in the EU/Legends. They also appear in the new Canon, particularly in Clone Wars and Rebels, with the Nightsisters of Dathomir. 

Fair enough. 

I recall the night sisters animated episodes and have always found them shrug-worthy and wholly ignorable. 

With hundreds of animated episodes you invariably end up with canon creep and concept dilution.  

Yes, they do appear in the animated addends of indisputable hit-you-on-the-head-with-it holy canon.

And yet, I still don't want that stuff in my games and won't be including it.

I use the movies plus selected bits that I actually like from rebels and the clone wars, but not all of them.

Others should, as always, do as they please.

 

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6 hours ago, Vondy said:

What follows is wholly subjective and rooted in personal aesthetic tastes.

I love the makashi and seer archetypes and have happily used them as the basis of a character I enjoyed playing.

But this book, which I waited a long time for, was simply not for me.

This it seemed too heavily slanted towards space fantasy / D&D in space for my tastes.

Potions, conjuring, and ritualized force-witch style powers cross beyond the aesthetic of how Star Wars feels to me.

These elements, too varying degrees, do appear in the expanded universe, and people who want them should enjoy.

But this book vibed too fantasy and too magical for me; more "force wizard" than "mystic warrior."

That said, there are lots of neat bits in this book and the production values are, as always, fantastic.

For instance, the prophecy tree is interesting from a narrative "drive the story" sort of way.

The completist in me is happy to have it on the shelf, but most of it will never make an appearance in my games.

If I want to quaf a potion, conjure an object, or use rituals for magical effects I'll play D&D.

Others will, of course, disagree. 

 

I don’t think these specialties are out of place in Star Wars, there are tons of EU stories about the force as magic.  Even in canon material the Sith Alchemy of Palpatine and the Night Sisters use of alchemy and potions.

Star Wars was based on Flash Gordon, it’s a fantasy western in space.

 

Edited by Eoen

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19 minutes ago, Eoen said:

I don’t think these specialties are out of place in Star Wars, there are tons of EU stories about the force as magic.  Even in canon material the Sith Alchemy of Palestine and the Night Sisters use of alchemy and potions.

Star Wars was based on Flash Gordon, it’s a fantasy western in space.

 

I already responded to an almost identical reaction above.

Like I said: people should do what makes them happy. I'm for it.

If you want to include those elements of the EU and non-live-action canon in your games I say "Excelsior!"

But, for me, I found those elements groan-worthy, utterly ignorable, and off-tenor when I encountered them. 

For me, animated shows like Clone Wars and Rebels are a sometimes dissonant sub-canon.

As such, I shall omit the parts I don't like from my games and leave potions and spells for D&D.

I know, its bad-wrong-fun, but its my bad-wrong-fun.

Edited by Vondy

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8 hours ago, WillisRBC said:

I haven’t looked through the post but has someone posted how the freeform force use works in the back of the book?  My book won’t be here until Thursday...

The Gm gives you a roll, usually of average difficulty that correlates to the thing you're trying to do. You also need a set amount of force pips, determined by the Gm as well. If you succeed, ya did it! The rules aren't clear cut, but more situational.

Also, they suggest harder difficulty for things that sound like force powers the character hasn't purchased.

Hopes that helps!

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9 hours ago, nondairykreemer said:

“When the character performs a Charm, Coercion, or Deception check, he may include [FD] equal to his Force rating. Each [LSP] adds [SUC] to Charm checks. Each [DSP] adds [SUC] to Coercion or Deception checks. However, every [LSP][LSP] add [FAIL] to Coercion or Deception checks, and every [DSP][DSP] add [FAIL] to Charm checks. This does not apply to targets immune to Force powers.”

This makes me think that the awesome interpretation is actually the correct one.  Here's the full text for Unleashed Power:

"For each [LS][LS] generated on the Force power check, add one automatic [LS] to the results.  For each [DS][DS] generated on the Force power check, add one automatic [DS] to the results."

The reason I was confused was that the short description indicates that a pip is added for each 2-pip "result," which makes it sound like it's on a per-die basis, but the for each 2-pips generated... that just sounds like it doesn't matter, it just counts them and then adds +50%.

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16 hours ago, WillisRBC said:

So it isn’t like a set of generic force use rules instead of having to buy each power as ranks?

"Freeform force use and existing powers:

This sort of freeform force use should not take the place of existing force powers. If a player describes an action that replicates the effect of a force powe, the GM should either let the player know their character does not possess the expertise yet, or possibly allow them to achieve similar but lesser results, and only with a combined check of at least hard difficulty. As a guideline, it should also require double the number of [force pips] required. "

So its not so much a generic rules set. 

But I think you could decide that the force is very flexible in your game. That's what the campaign I'm in right now does, and it becomes quite interesting. 

Edited by player3168361

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5 minutes ago, player3168361 said:

"Freeform force use and existing powers:

This sort of freeform force use should not take the place of existing force powers. If a player describes an action that replicates the effect of a force powe, the GM should either let the player know their character does not possess the expertise yet, or possibly allow them to achieve similar but lesser results, and only with a combined check of at least hard difficulty. As a guideline, it should also require double the number of [force pips] required. "

So its not so much a generic rules set. 

But I think you could decide that the force is very flexible in your game. That's what the campaign I'm in right now does, and it becomes quite interesting. 

Yep.  My iconic character is a master psychometer, so I'm certain we'll be using these rules for her attempts to read the histories of people, places, and things. 

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I honestly wish i could ask to implement these new rules in my game.

But alas, in the beginning of the campaign I annoyed the GM and I shall taken seriously again when I make suggestions.

I just really want my makashi duelist to have the new magus tree as well!

 

Edited by player3168361

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20 hours ago, player3168361 said:

I honestly wish i could ask to implement these new rules in my game.

But alas, in the beginning of the campaign I annoyed the GM and I shall taken seriously again when I make suggestions.

I just really want my makashi duelist to have the new magus tree as well!

 

I know of GMs who are more than happy to allow players to respec their characters if their career book is newly released.

As a GM, I’d allow it, just as I accepted the ability to do so with my Sentinel after Endless Vigil was released.

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So, I'm probably not the first one to say this but...

After Unlimited Power, does it feel like the Mystic and Consular have switched flavor?

I mean between Advisor and Prophet being social-focused and the Makashi duelist being Presence-based it makes the Mystic decidedly "Face" heavy.

Meanwhile, Consular has Sage (a more int based Seer) that gives +2 Force Rating and One With the Universe; Ascetic, that gives Empty Soul; and the Nimen Disciple that is about blending the Force with your dueling style.

Now, force-use does not a mystic make, but still, even the flavor of the abilities in the Consular specs tends to focus on self-knowledge, connection to a greater power, and enlightenment way more than the mystic specializations.

I suppose Magus makes an argument against that, but it's also inherently linked with a very possible "dark path." I'm not sure what my overall point is, but I just thought I'd bring it up.

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19 minutes ago, SonofScarlet said:

So, I'm probably not the first one to say this but...

After Unlimited Power, does it feel like the Mystic and Consular have switched flavor?

I mean between Advisor and Prophet being social-focused and the Makashi duelist being Presence-based it makes the Mystic decidedly "Face" heavy.

Meanwhile, Consular has Sage (a more int based Seer) that gives +2 Force Rating and One With the Universe; Ascetic, that gives Empty Soul; and the Nimen Disciple that is about blending the Force with your dueling style.

Now, force-use does not a mystic make, but still, even the flavor of the abilities in the Consular specs tends to focus on self-knowledge, connection to a greater power, and enlightenment way more than the mystic specializations.

I suppose Magus makes an argument against that, but it's also inherently linked with a very possible "dark path." I'm not sure what my overall point is, but I just thought I'd bring it up.

I can understand where you are coming from, and consular and mystic are both supposed to be very Force heavy, so it's natural the line between the two would be fuzzy.

That said, I think the devs did a good job in keeping them unique and keeping the Consular as more of an advisor and group buffer, while the Mystic is more about the Force. My rationale is based in large part on the flavor of the specs in each career. The Mystic specs delve more into mystical uses of the Force (e.g., Alchemist, Prophet, Magus), and while it is true that Consular has several talents which significantly augment Force ability (e.g., One with the Universe and Empty Soul), Mystic has the same, if not better ones, in Channel Agony, Power of Darkness, Fount of Power, and Natural Mystic for both auto-generating pips for yourself and your allies. Furthermore, the Consular is more about using the Force to help others while the Mystic is more about maximizing the power of the Force, in my opinion (lightsaber forms notwithstanding).

Finally, there are also the Signature Abilities, which are what really define a career. The Consular abilities are all about buffing allies and negotiating, while the Mystic abilities are much more closely tied to the Force, and Unleashed Power in Unmatched Destiny for Mystic makes the Mystic unrivaled in terms of Force potential, especially with something like a Mystic Prophet/Seer, or even Prophet/Ascetic.

In summary, I agree it is a really fine line, with some segments more blurred than others, but I personally think the devs did a great job with the flavor.

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On signature abilities there's no argument. One is direct work with the Force (Prophesy), and the other is all about Force powers (Unmatched Destiny). That is clearly on the side of the Mystic. Though out of the powers you mentioned that grant power with the force, only two of those are not Dark Side related (induce auto conflict), and of those only one actually helps the character's Force rolls without automatically opening them up to Conflict (natural mystic). Unlike Empty Soul and One with the Universe which go contrary to the Consular modus operendi of buffing others and only help the character.

The design has been very solid, and removing any kind of fluff descriptors I think its very well balanced. I just think (and this is just me here) mystic isn't necessarily my go-to spec anymore for a Force heavy character or one who's dedicated to Force-based mechanics. Sure once I've mustered enough experience for Unmatched Destiny, maybe, but before that Sage/Ascetic reads way better than Seer/Prophet unless I'm specifically going down the path of corruption, then yeah, nothing beats Seer/Magus.

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