TheWanderingJewels

L5R: Kamon (Mon) registry

31 posts in this topic

Thank you for the accidental cross post, I find this stuff fascinating. I don't know anything about Lot5R, is it fun and would it make a good setting for an adventure?

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I used to play first edition L5R a great deal... and it was fantastic... if a bit "american version of psudo Japanese feudal peoples" it's a fun little area to campaign in, especially during the uprising of the Scorpion. Plus the D10 version was very much built to complement the mentality of the world. 

 

Great game, really great game.

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I tend to run mine a bit more based on Japanese culture, with some elements of Chinese and Korean thrown in (that IS what is was based on), with a Thai influence for the Mantis. Being a history student let me fill in a lot of holes in the setting and my players have enjoyed it as the prime game I've run for the past 17 years. 

 

 

Matsudaira.jpg

Edited by TheWanderingJewels
type correction
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Nice topic. L5¨R is something that I want to see in Genesys. I'm sure that the dramatic dice system can provide a lot of more agility and dramaticity to the game. And this kind of detail,the kamon, are trully beautiful.

Despite the fact of L5R have it's own space, oriental things will get space here soom. A lot of Fantasy setting would be the base for oriental scenarios.

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With the announcement of a L5R rpg announcement just put up (and absolutely no details beyond flavor and hype) it'll be interesting to see if this will be a Genesys project or a separate rules system all together.

What are people's bets?

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Just now, dresdinseven said:

What are people's bets?

Genesys, or something that uses the narrative dice. It seems to me that Genesys is now FFG's flagship RPG system, so it doesn't make much sense to me for them to develop a whole new system again. Seeing as the L5R Beta isn't going to be a whole rulebook but portions, they may be testing out certain new mechanics particular to the setting, rather than reinventing the wheel.

And just for argument's sake, I know End of the World uses a different setting, but I also believe that it wasn't originally developed by FFG, and is instead the English version of something produced elsewhere (I'm thinking Mexico, but I can't remember).

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5 minutes ago, dresdinseven said:

With the announcement of a L5R rpg announcement just put up (and absolutely no details beyond flavor and hype) it'll be interesting to see if this will be a Genesys project or a separate rules system all together.

What are people's bets?

Even though it is the opposite of what I would have bet yesterday, I'm going with separate product. This is based off what little info released today, ie no graphical ties to Genesys, no mention of Gensys and what little description sounds a little nebulous when if it were Gensys, a little more detail could have been given. 

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Sensei across Rokugan teach samurai-in-training to observe and express these different elements in all that they do. In the Legend of the Five Rings Roleplaying Game, characters are defined by their strength in different elements. In every task they undertake, they must choose an elemental approach, and the suitability of one approach over another can give them the edge they need or diminish their chances of succeeding.

I would say this is describing the dice mechanic. 5 characteristics instead of 6. Possibly every skill can be used with any characteristic, but the situation will determine if one of the "Rings" or "Elements" is better for a situation over another.

 

Air is the weather and the wind, the invisible and the innuendo, and the swiftness of a bird of prey. Earth is stone, wood, and metal, as well as a donkey’s stubbornness and a tortoise’s patience. Fire is the gentle warmth of the sun or the rage of a wildfire, but also the spark of innovation, the passion of devotion, and the ferocity of a wildcat. Water is a octopus’s adaptability and flexibility; it takes the shape of its container, be it a puddle, a river, or an endless sea. Void is the emptiness of the night sky or nirvana, at once present and transcendent. 

this suggests each ring shows the basic emotion and approach to life that they take. Are you creative and passionate? You probably have a high Fire ring. Perhaps your adaptable and nimble, therefore your Water ring is high. Then you're training with a skill upgrades the base ring to form your dice pool.

You can approach melee combat stealthily, trying for tricks and backstabs  using Air. Or perhaps you approach it with courage, charging your foe using the Fire ring. I hope this is the path they have chosen.

 

A simpler option:

Replace 6 Characteristics with 5 Elemental Rings. Skills are tied to a particular ring. Building dice pools follows the SW/Genesys method. I'm not sure this would need a Beta though, and is less adventurous in my eyes.

 

Alternativly, and far more complex:

In the WFRP system there was a stance system, you could take a reckless approach or a conservative approach to actions. Instead of upgrading your characteristics based on skill ranks you upgraded based on how reckless or conservative your approach was. Therefore the base ability die could either be upgraded to a Red Reckless Dice or a Green Conservative Dice. Skill ranks then add to the pool via a Skill Dice:

4 Strength, Reckless 2, with a rank of training would make for 2 Ability, 2 Reckless and a Skill Die in the pool.

I could see this ring system working in a similar way, although it could get out of hand with dice types. 5 different dice for the 5 rings, with a basic characteristic die and Skill dice... plus Boost dice; that's 8 different positive dice! But each elemental die could have different faces representing their specific influence on outcomes due to their nature.

I hope this isn't the path they take, it would be far too cumbersome imho.

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Yeah, this isn't sounding like a Genesys nor another Narrative Dice system game. It's sounding like it's  something different.

 

We'll know for certain next week when the open beta starts.

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L5R has his own system with the rings, but for me, this isn't really necessary. It's possible to do something like the Oriental Adventures from D&D3,5. The scenario is "the same", but the system is different. But Genesys looks much better than D20 to do this.

Thinking about an adaptation, the elements can appear in a different way, like specs to classes (one per element).

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1 hour ago, Bellyon said:

L5R has his own system with the rings, but for me, this isn't really necessary. It's possible to do something like the Oriental Adventures from D&D3,5. The scenario is "the same", but the system is different. But Genesys looks much better than D20 to do this.

Thinking about an adaptation, the elements can appear in a different way, like specs to classes (one per element).

An oriental/feudal Japanese setting in Genesys would be excellent, but that wouldn't be L5R. In the same way Genesys could easily make a Space setting with Magic but thats definitely not Star Wars.

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1 hour ago, Richardbuxton said:

An oriental/feudal Japanese setting in Genesys would be excellent, but that wouldn't be L5R. In the same way Genesys could easily make a Space setting with Magic but thats definitely not Star Wars.

I understand but a scenario could be played in a lot of systems. Even SW has few versions: Star Wars D20, Star Wars Saga... now we've Star Wars FFG. And, for the majority of fans, FFG (Genesys) is by far way the best system to play it. And this system is Genesys. So, yes, I believe that L5R would be awesome in this system.

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Sorry I definitely didn't explain myself clearly enough. I was talking about the official FFG L5R RPG rules. Because they have an open beta for them, something Genesys never had, I would expect their rules to be a heavily modified version of the Narrative Dice. The system I would expect will be so different that it's far better to put it in its own core book rather than try and explain all the changes in a supplement.

What changes? I'm just guessing, but expect to see the core elements of the system changed. Different characteristics possibly as a set of 5 rather than 6. Perhaps different dice, with a different balance. In any case it's not just going to be some new Archetypes and Careers for Genesys.

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I understand your point, but despite new archetypes and careers looks a simple way to resolve the question, imo it's just one way to be creative to pull the 5 rings in a new way, to avoid drastic changes, like reduce stats from 6 to 5. And, like I've said, I trully believe that it's possible to create that 'mystical' aspect of the 5 rings in simple and good ways. The elements, as far as I remember, represent energy of the live things and the daily actions. Your strenght in one or two elements needn't be explicit to be there. And the system will use the dices from Genesys, we already know that.

Honor could be a complementary rule (mod) - the Genesys will have addicional rules for whoever want, maybe we can see something like this.
Void = story points
ninjō = motivation
giri = obligation

Also it's easy to create common archetypes and careers and specs, and few clan's specific options.

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An FFG L5R could be a litmus test for their new house system Genesys which promises to cover every imaginable setting. I would be highly disappointed if it used a different system or a heavily adapted Genesys which does not look like the narrative dice system any more.

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3 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

We will know next week when the beta drops

The article does not make it sound like Genesys at all. Alas.

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No. And it was easy to say it to be related, or remotely related or no related at all to Genesys...

Unless they think defining that point could raise concerns on core L5R fans... 

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FFG Star Wars is definitely not the same game as their Warhammer Fantasy Role Play game. Yet both have a dice system built around Success/Failure, Advantage/Threat, Triumph/Despair. Transitioning between the two was simple since the concept is exactly the same. The way they get there though is very very different.

Genesys looks to be the Star Wars system just with the serial numbers filed off. Could they simply use Genesys and release a set of Theme books? Yep probably. But it's quite possible that FFG decided that the core mechanics didn't reflect the heart and soul of L5R enough and have therefore come up with a significantly modified system. The fact we got no Genesys open Beta yet we are here for L5R tells us the changes are sizeable.

Hints in the article suggest they still have the 3 axis of resolution on the dice. But my suspicion is that those dice and what they represent will have changed. The way you get from a blank sheet of paper to telling an epic story with a character will have changed. How your character evolves, and how they interact will have changed.

If you look through squinted eyes you will see the lineage from WFRP through SW(Genesys) then into L5R. But you won't take an NPC or PC from Genesys and bring it into L5R.

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