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Coldhands

Rogues

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Rogue lost its appeal at least to me in the fact that rogue fighters go last which hurt my over all fighter strategy.

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15 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

AFFM!only works on squads activates by commands, so no, Cymmon will have no effect on them.

In my area, Rogues are practically non-existent, but then we usually only fly the minimum squad screens necessary, and that for the Imps is 6 TIE/Fs, and the Rebs 4 A-Wings.

I know that a Decimator swarm can be nasty, and @thecactusman17 is flying them in the current tourney, so maybe he can give an opinion on those. Firespray swarms are tough, as they are expensive to accumulate, so I don't know how popular they were to begin with. I do know that the Aggressors are usually ignored, but again, like Firesprays, they're tough to accumulate.

My thoughts on Rogues thus far:

The main thing that lead to Rogues disappearing isn't Rogues, it's Relay.  With 1-2 Relay squads giving every flotilla in the game the ability to activate 2-4 squadrons from across the map the need for Rogues  that could operate independently from supporting ships has been completely disappeared. 

The value of Rogues right now is as squadrons that can harass ships after the ship phase once enemy squadrons have been neutralized.  As anti-squadron support, they are at a disadvantage in the current go-anywhere-without-penalty meta.  This is why Decimators have a place in the current meta as a giant floating brick that has a decent chance to do 2-3 damage vs enemy ships.  Where the current Rogues fall apart is their limited response to enemy squadrons.  There are currently only 3 really good anti-squadron squads with Rogue:  Han Solo, Boba Fett, and Dash Rendar.  All three have unique abilities that are specifically useful in a fight in progress and all three are resilient enough to survive until the squadron phase while staying engaged during the ship phase.  Also, critically, all three roll blue dice with some means of correcting for bad rolls (Han as last-first, Boba with the free damage on activation, Dash Rendar with super-reroll).  This means that all three are likely to punch through scatter tokens and all three have enough damage output to deal with high-hull generics like Defenders and YT-2400s.  

The problem with the other options is that they either don't roll enough dice to be effective, roll the wrong kind of dice, or their abilities restrict them to only specific types of targets.  For example, Decimators are only good against two types of targets:  enemy light ships like Flotillas and Hammerheads, and generic light squadrons that they can rapidly kill without the target running away through Heavy.  Firesprays have only 3 blue dice without rerolls, so any squadron fights are going to be a long slog.  Aggressors are too slow to effectively intercept enemy squadrons, and YV-666's are too slow to engage ships or squadrons.  On the Rebel side, Lancer Patrol craft are too fragile.  YT-2400s on the other hand are fairly effective, but have no abilities to tilt the odds back in their favor if they run into enemy black die squadrons or suddenly find themselves in trouble.

With Relay allowing normally activated squadrons to strike from across the map, it has made most other squadrons more effective by letting them benefit from the proliferation of squadron upgrades on ships like Yavaris, Flight Controllers, All Fighters Follow Me etc.

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With all of the recent new squads, and ship squad upgrades, the rogue keyword is now over-costed, and waiting until the squad phase to use Rogue is almost always not good. Too bad, so many fun Rogue squads!

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I think a whole list of them is ineffective.  But sprinkle them in with a tie swarm to tie down fighters and then bring them in to hammer away during the squad phase can be effective.

Helias de Nappo likes this

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24 minutes ago, ripper998 said:

I think a whole list of them is ineffective.  But sprinkle them in with a tie swarm to tie down fighters and then bring them in to hammer away during the squad phase can be effective.

I agree here.  The struggle I run into with including rouges is that they really like squadron-phase activation advantage and high speed to be able to threaten enemy squadrons at the very end of the squadron phase and break up/stiffarm alpha strikes, but they're so expensive--particularly the fast ones--that it's very hard to afford enough additional squadrons to make that ability worthwhile.  I think Dash and IG-88 are the best options respectively for this, but they're 24/21 points, which is... pretty expensive if you're going for a large number of squadrons.

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6 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

I did at one point look into Corran, Hera, 2Ewings and a metric tonne of Z95s. Never tried it out though.

Yeah, I think this kind of construct has potential.  I'm just waiting for the cries of ZOMGBROKEN if somebody starts explicitly playing the squadron activation game with like TIEs and Decimators or Z95s + Hera H-6's or something.

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1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

Yeah, I think this kind of construct has potential.  I'm just waiting for the cries of ZOMGBROKEN if somebody starts explicitly playing the squadron activation game with like TIEs and Decimators or Z95s + Hera H-6's or something.

Do you want to know why I never ran it?

Toryn doesnt work on Z95's. I'm becoming predictable.

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I just played a game where I had 2 Deci's, with Valen, Howlrunner, Ciena, Dengar and Mauler.  It worked out okay.  I won the squadron battle even though he had swarm squads within strongholds reach (which SUCKS).  I would have probably won the game if I hadnt goofed on my placing my gonzo in front of his demo which kept it out of range of my VSD1 for one turn.  Amazing how one mis-movement can screw up a whole battle plan.

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22 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Do you want to know why I never ran it?

Toryn doesnt work on Z95's. I'm becoming predictable.

She does if you activate with flight controllers!

eViL dAvE likes this

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One of my favorite semi Rogue sqd combo's that I use from time to time is:

Hera, Wedge, Dutch, Rogue Sqd and 2x X-wing sqd. =103pts

As long as they stick relativly close together and near Hera especially, they form quite a flexibly anti sqd wing, that can keep the enemy sqd ball at bay, long enough for my gun orientatet ships, to finish of my opponents ships.

And if need be they can chip in, in the anti ship role.

What I figured out with this little Hera Ball, is that some sqds usually get tangled up with the opponents sqds in the ship phase, meaning that if they where all Rogues, some would lose that ability by being engaged =point wasted on something that they cant use. But with Hera you can always appoint the rearmost non-rogue sqds in the sqd ball to be rogue and get them into the fight in the same turn as the other sqds, which was engaged in the ship phase.

So in essence I have four rogue sqds in my Hera ball, where two of them only become rogue when the need arises for them to be rogue.

And trust me Wedge and Dutch as a Dynamic Rogue Duo, can be really nasty. :P

Edited by Kiwi Rat
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