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FFG and TLT Hate, where is the Nerf?

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So by now most of us have seen the interview at Nova where a Star Wars Designer says, TLT is his most hated card and has been for a while now because of how it unbalances the game.

 

So I ask you where is the Nerf?  Isn't it time they just stated

1)   Crits when firing a TLT count as misses

   or

1)  Ships being attacked ignore the Secondary weapon bonus of the TLT

Why have they not done this yet?   Do we think the Mouse has something to do with this, or are the designers afraid to admit there mistakes,

 

Just wondering what others think?

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Because those ideas are dice dependent and therefore incredibly unreliable

Really don't get why people clamor for dice fixes. That doesn't change the core issue of these upgrades, ie that they're far too easy to leverage for how effective vthey are. That lowers your ability to counterplay them and lowers your impact as a player. Dice do not help you there at all, they're just luck.

Far better to either lower the damage ceiling (one attack with Gunner effect) or add a target lock restriction or something. Stuff that's GUARANTEED to make a difference

Course ffg is notoriously slow to fix ****, so give it time. Process is undoubtedly more complex than we give it credit for 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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The Mouse definitely has nothing to do with it, I can say that much for sure.

LFL just MIGHT, but it's highly unliklely they'd care about the game balance issues of a game being published under license by another company entirely.

I hope something is being done about TLT, and I have my preferred suggestions.

Suffice it to say an FAQ is long overdue, and I suspect is either waiting for the release of Guns for Hire, which will need a MASSIVE entry for Thweek anyway, or for Nationals to be over, or both.  Whether it will include nerfs and whether those nerfs will include TLT, is for the birds.  Or the playtesters, if you can persuade one to squawk.

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2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Like, say, an Ion Cannon Turret for 5 points?

While I don't see that one much, there are some who swear by it,  and that's because it it Ion, there for giving additional value than just straight damage. TLT isn't a control piece. It is just designed to do damage. Would you really pay 6 points for an upgrade that you have to sacrifice your regular attack for a _chance_ to do one damage?

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3 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

So it can do a maximum of one damage a turn? For 6 points? You do know how to slag an upgrade card.

Make it 5 points to be on pair with the ion turret then? I do not think that 6points would be too much for a range 1-2 turret that basically guarantees one damage. It wouldn't be the auto-include all other turrets are stupid thing we have now. Just take a look at the limitations of the other turrets that came bevor the TLT. Let's go back to that standard for turret upgrades. Probably push mechanics that improve the turrets when used in arc but let's limit this no-brainer-out-of-arc bull.

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2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

While I don't see that one much, there are some who swear by it,  and that's because it it Ion, there for giving additional value than just straight damage. TLT isn't a control piece. It is just designed to do damage. Would you really pay 6 points for an upgrade that you have to sacrifice your regular attack for a _chance_ to do one damage?

No, but i'd gleefully pay 6 points for an upgrade where I don't give up my primary attack because I couldn't use it anyway, which is the case for most things with a turret slot.

A putative TLT which was just 'range 1-3, attack 3' with the TLT clause would be EASILY worth six points, if not more.

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Just now, ficklegreendice said:

TL requirement works too

Miri can't focus at range 3 (giant pain in the *** atop her Regen) and nym has to take ac for mods instead of sensors 

 

I particularly like the TL requirement for the second shot, for the combo with R4 Agromech meaning Scum can still have 3 effective TLT Y Wings, but can't add a 4th and have to replace it with a HWK.

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4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

While I don't see that one much, there are some who swear by it,  and that's because it it Ion, there for giving additional value than just straight damage. TLT isn't a control piece. It is just designed to do damage. Would you really pay 6 points for an upgrade that you have to sacrifice your regular attack for a _chance_ to do one damage?

Miranda would still use it, first shot regen and miss with two dice, then second attack like she always does.

I think the best solution is too reduce its accuracy by either 'crits must be turned to blanks', or 'no offensive modification allowed' (killing accuracy corrector combo and giving sensor jammer a reason to live again).

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2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

A bit too complex though 

Easier just to give it a TL header

Easier but not as interesting.

For any change to TLT, that's my biggest concern - nerf is needed, sure, but I want that nerf to do more than just downpower it, I want it to make it *interesting to fly*.  Make it care about pointing front at enemy, or something.

Hence, the second shot being contingent on target in arc OR TL.

Edited by thespaceinvader

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1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

I particularly like the TL requirement for the second shot, for the combo with R4 Agromech meaning Scum can still have 3 effective TLT Y Wings, but can't add a 4th and have to replace it with a HWK.

At this point the nerf isn't hard enough. Also TL req can be avoided with deadeye.

Just ask yourself how much does the TLT have to be nerfed so you would consider the blaster turret being a serious alternative.

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11 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

Make it 5 points to be on pair with the ion turret then? I do not think that 6points would be too much for a range 1-2 turret that basically guarantees one damage. It wouldn't be the auto-include all other turrets are stupid thing we have now. Just take a look at the limitations of the other turrets that came bevor the TLT. Let's go back to that standard for turret upgrades. Probably push mechanics that improve the turrets when used in arc but let's limit this no-brainer-out-of-arc bull.

 

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

No, but i'd gleefully pay 6 points for an upgrade where I don't give up my primary attack because I couldn't use it anyway, which is the case for most things with a turret slot.

A putative TLT which was just 'range 1-3, attack 3' with the TLT clause would be EASILY worth six points, if not more.

Okay. Go test it. Tell me how it goes.

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2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

 

Okay. Go test it. Tell me how it goes.

Didn't need to. I know this is what it takes to make me consider other turrets. Anything less won't do.

EDIT: Second attack only in arc would be good too.

Edited by Hannes Solo

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1 minute ago, Hannes Solo said:

At this point the nerf isn't hard enough. Also TL req can be avoided with deadeye.

Just ask yourself how much does the TLT have to be nerfed so you would consider the blaster turret being a serious alternative.

No, it can't - My suggestion is this:

Range 2-3, attack 3.  On hit, cancel all dice and deal 1 damage.  After attacking, you may perform this attack a second time if you have a target lock on the target, or the target is in your primary firing arc.

Deadeye does nothing for that.

And even if it did, GREAT.  We're forcing anyone who wants to use TLT effectively to give up their EPT slot to do it, making it much, much worse for basically everyone who currently uses it, or making them not take focus actions which makes them a lot less tough, and either way preventing the use of repositioning actions.

Or

Range 2 only, current text, but adding 'you may attack targets in your primary firing arc at range 3'.

--

Either way, Blaster Turret will just never be good.  Synched is a much, much better point for comparison.  It would take a LOT for synched to be better, probably a significant range reduction to TLT like my second option, above.

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6 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

At this point the nerf isn't hard enough. Also TL req can be avoided with deadeye.

Just ask yourself how much does the TLT have to be nerfed so you would consider the blaster turret being a serious alternative.

you don't avoid the TL requirement with deadeye, you still NEED an action to fire it

also a 1 point and ept tax, so no ps 10 nym

kind of a massive deal

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