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Jobu

My thoughts on Carcosa Cards

19 posts in this topic

Wanted to start a discussion regarding the cards from Carcosa and the effects overall in deck building

Guardian:

The introduction of another level zero Guardian firearm is a game changer in deck building.  Roland can start with 5 firearms.  This lets him invest immediately in extra ammo and he should be good to go.  Really any guardian can do that, its just that Roland gets the most bang for it.  The other Guardian cards are pretty good as well but don't shift Guardians that much.

Mystics:

2 cards that give resources?  That really helps address one of the classes weaknesses.  Spirit Athame is very good (and there are few good, level 1-2 mystic cards).  Astral Travel is a little lack luster but enhances the Mystic themes of "at a risk/cost" and "can do whatever anyone else can do" (movement in this case).

Rogue:

Lockpicks really helps fill in one of the Rogues major weaknesses (investigation).  That a pretty major shift to the class and is close to a must have.  Prior to this, they just had flashlights or had to pay resources to boost the skill.  Daring Maneuver is a mitigation to a not uncommon Rogue draw back.  The other cards mostly just extend what Rogues already do well.

Seekers and Survivors:

These guys get some nice cards, but does not shift the deck builds that much.  Seekers get more clue finding, movement based abilities and that precursor card.  Survivors get cheap weapons, enemy avoidance and  graveyard pull.  Its basically what they already had and at least 3 seem to be there to prop up Bill-Y.

Thoughts?

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Guardian:   I agree that the .32 colt is a big deal,  but I think other guardian cards are an equally big deal.  Let Me Handle This is so good in multiplayer because it lets your Guardian do their job to pull enemies off the Seekers/ weaker characters.  You don't have to babysit nearly as much,  where before if you wanted to help your friend you would have to probably move, think about whether to spend an action to engage or not, and then make your attack, you can just immediately LMHT to spawn the enemy on top of yourself and attack.   Seeker is free to do their thing, and you've got 3 actions to use to fight,  it's big.  I think LMHT fully replaces Taunt in all decks.   I'm also a fan of True Grit, really helps me feel that I'm the guardian, here I am, and I'm going to protect everyone.    That feels right.

Mystics:  I think Mystics are killing it in this pack.  Astral Travel is sort of a dud, I admit, but Spirit Athame and Uncage the Soul more than make up for it.  I played Akachi for the first time and I was finally like "Oh.  I get it.   This is how Mystics are supposed to work."   I was actually running her through the Dunwich campaign, and it just seemed like for the first time all the parts came together.  I had enough money thanks to Uncage the Soul, and the Athame gives you a huge boost to your spells and you can very reliably land them.  I had her against Undimensioned/Unseen with 2x Athame and Blood Pact adding +5 to 2 of her Esoteric formula attacks per turn.  She was tearing through Broods of Yog-Sothoth, and even managed to drop one with 3 Towering Beast cards stacked on it (Yorick volunteered his police badge to give Akachi 5 attacks on it during the Witching Hour).  

Rogue:  Lockpicks are cool, but I think Rogue didn't make it out too well in the pack.  Some of these cards are pretty niche,  Stealth might find a home in Wendy decks but probably not too many others will run it.  Daring Maneuver I think is very unimpressive.  Sleight of Hand is jaw-droppingly good, but not for rogues.  Zoey loves it though.   Even lockpicks can only be used once per turn, and give you no bonus clues on success, which to me makes them fair (and only 1 xp),  but not great.

Survivors:  I quite like some of the new survivor cards.  Shovel is handy.   Lantern can be nice as well.  Resourceful is great, especially for Minh. 

Seekers:  Fieldwork is the star of the pack for Seekers.   Nice card, and gives you a chance at combat or evade if there is a monster where you need to be.   I like the idea of No Stone Unturned for Jim, but I havent tried it out yet.  

Edited by awp832
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Re Daring Maneuver,   I think we are a few cards short of the succeed by 2 or more to make this a really good card.

I think the list is Switchblade(s), .45 Derringer, Lockpicks (sort of), Quick Thinking and Opportunist(s) (bleh on Opportunist).

2-3 more cards with a similar drawback would make it worthwhile.

I can see Opportunist (l2) becoming good in a deck with a lot of succeed by 2 or more cards and DM.

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Guardians:

.32 colt is good addition. Cheaper and with more ammo but with less attack.  

True grit i think isn't that useful. I find that my guardians are more vulnerable in the horror department so more health doesn't really help and you are probably the one being engaged with the enemy anyway. 3 health for 3 cost might be relatively cheap but you probably got other better things that you want to pay for.

Let me handle this is good especially with more players around (useless in solo). Other classes can also use this to handle encounters that they are good at.

Ever vigilant i think might be too situational. It is good if you get it in your opening hand as that's when you have the highest chance of having both the assets and resources to take advantage of the bargain action economy.

Mystics:

Alchemical transmutation is not great but it has it uses. It has the same benefits and problems of burglary in that it takes a couple of actions to really gain something except worse in that it takes a arcane slot and a chance to take damage. I do like cheap assets though as they are great sacrificial items for some encounters cards and this one can also be useful to get rid of cursed luck. Akechi especially can use this for her weakness or as a emergency cache with her signature card.

Astral travel is bad. Not sure why anyone would want this. It is too expensive unless you want to waste your uncage the soul on this plus you have a chance to lose an additional item or ally.

Uncage the soul is great. Everyone can see that, No additional comments here.

Spirit Athame has a good bonus for spellcasting and a bonus to melee in case you need it to kill some rats. I think most mystics could spare the 1 exp to get this considering that they usually have a spare hand slot.

Rogue:

Stealth i am not sure which characters would really benefit from this.

Daring maneuver is good if you are going for the succeed by 2 strategy but otherwise pointless.

Sleight of hand is another great card which needs no explaining.

Lockpicks is pretty much a must have for rogues buffing their investigation to match the seekers. Strangely enough you cannot use the lockpicks to burglarize a place.

Seeker:

Archaic glyphs hopefully has some awesome ability once translated because the cost to translate them is pretty steep. Akechi and Daisy are probably the ones who will find it most useful.

Fieldwork seems useful but i am not too sure how often you will get to use it. Maybe it can combo with pathfinder to move back and forth between 2 locations.

No stone unturned isn't something i would normally like to use but i might use Alyssa Graham ability to keep looking at the top of my deck and then use this instead of adding the doom token to Alyssa.

In the know seems useful but probably best in a 2 player game. In solo you have to go to the locations to reveal them anyway. In 3-4 there would be so many clues that you would probably be better off going there personally unless you are Rex.

Survivor:

Gravedigger's shovel seems to be meant specially for William.  It is not going to be useful for either the fighters nor the investigators.

Lantern is another item for William but also something the others could find useful as a alternative to the flashlight. 

Hiding spot is effectively a cheaper cunning distraction that doesn't work on elites that can buy you a turn. At such a steep discount it is not bad at all.

Resourceful is actually pretty great. I don't particularly care about retrieving those survivor items that tends to break but getting back a look what i found and lucky going to be useful.

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31 minutes ago, DarkFate said:

Guardians:

.32 colt is good addition. Cheaper and with more ammo but with less attack.  

True grit i think isn't that useful. I find that my guardians are more vulnerable in the horror department so more health doesn't really help and you are probably the one being engaged with the enemy anyway. 3 health for 3 cost might be relatively cheap but you probably got other better things that you want to pay for.

Let me handle this is good especially with more players around (useless in solo). Other classes can also use this to handle encounters that they are good at.

Ever vigilant i think might be too situational. It is good if you get it in your opening hand as that's when you have the highest chance of having both the assets and resources to take advantage of the bargain action economy.

Mystics:

Alchemical transmutation is not great but it has it uses. It has the same benefits and problems of burglary in that it takes a couple of actions to really gain something except worse in that it takes a arcane slot and a chance to take damage. I do like cheap assets though as they are great sacrificial items for some encounters cards and this one can also be useful to get rid of cursed luck. Akechi especially can use this for her weakness or as a emergency cache with her signature card.

Astral travel is bad. Not sure why anyone would want this. It is too expensive unless you want to waste your uncage the soul on this plus you have a chance to lose an additional item or ally.

Uncage the soul is great. Everyone can see that, No additional comments here.

Spirit Athame has a good bonus for spellcasting and a bonus to melee in case you need it to kill some rats. I think most mystics could spare the 1 exp to get this considering that they usually have a spare hand slot.

Rogue:

Stealth i am not sure which characters would really benefit from this.

Daring maneuver is good if you are going for the succeed by 2 strategy but otherwise pointless.

Sleight of hand is another great card which needs no explaining.

Lockpicks is pretty much a must have for rogues buffing their investigation to match the seekers. Strangely enough you cannot use the lockpicks to burglarize a place.

Seeker:

Archaic glyphs hopefully has some awesome ability once translated because the cost to translate them is pretty steep. Akechi and Daisy are probably the ones who will find it most useful.

Fieldwork seems useful but i am not too sure how often you will get to use it. Maybe it can combo with pathfinder to move back and forth between 2 locations.

No stone unturned isn't something i would normally like to use but i might use Alyssa Graham ability to keep looking at the top of my deck and then use this instead of adding the doom token to Alyssa.

In the know seems useful but probably best in a 2 player game. In solo you have to go to the locations to reveal them anyway. In 3-4 there would be so many clues that you would probably be better off going there personally unless you are Rex.

Survivor:

Gravedigger's shovel seems to be meant specially for William.  It is not going to be useful for either the fighters nor the investigators.

Lantern is another item for William but also something the others could find useful as a alternative to the flashlight. 

Hiding spot is effectively a cheaper cunning distraction that doesn't work on elites that can buy you a turn. At such a steep discount it is not bad at all.

Resourceful is actually pretty great. I don't particularly care about retrieving those survivor items that tends to break but getting back a look what i found and lucky going to be useful.

How do you think that is going to change the way you build decks?

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just a note: I don't think astral travel is bad at all... it really depends on the layout of the locations. Lost it time and space as well as other scenarios that have forced movements like Carnivale can really make this card worth it. 

 

Just my 2 cents.

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I don't think carcosa really change deckbuilding significantly. I can see it improving my existing decks but it does not introduce new strategy. It gives Mystics and Rogues a much needed boost, not so much for the other 3. 

I think ultimately the new characters will change deckbuilding more than the individual cards itself. 

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Eh...  Astral travel can only be used on a location that is already revealed, meaning that you or another player has to have been to the hard-to-get-to location already. It can help you catch up if you are lagging behind, but it can't really help you advance the scenario.

The card effect is much like Elusive except it costs more, it isn't fast, it still provokes AoOs, you don't disengage with enemies and there is an added risk of losing an item or ally.  The only advantage it has over Elusive is that you can Astral Travel into locations with enemies on them, which is sort of a questionable idea anyway.  So yeah, I would say it's bad.  It's bad until:

a)  We get some way to reveal locations without actually having to go there first.

b) the maps on the large majority of the scenarios are ultra-annoying.

once one of those things is true I'll play it.

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1 hour ago, awp832 said:

Eh...  Astral travel can only be used on a location that is already revealed, meaning that you or another player has to have been to the hard-to-get-to location already. It can help you catch up if you are lagging behind, but it can't really help you advance the scenario.

The card effect is much like Elusive except it costs more, it isn't fast, it still provokes AoOs, you don't disengage with enemies and there is an added risk of losing an item or ally.  The only advantage it has over Elusive is that you can Astral Travel into locations with enemies on them, which is sort of a questionable idea anyway.  So yeah, I would say it's bad.  It's bad until:

a)  We get some way to reveal locations without actually having to go there first.

b) the maps on the large majority of the scenarios are ultra-annoying.

once one of those things is true I'll play it.

I'm not arguing these points, but as mentioned, it is actually extremely good for Carnivale.  If I were to play it as a solo, pretty sure I would now take Sefina with 2 copies of Astral Travel, as it is an event, and she can replicate it. 

Imagine having made one round already and finding an escort on the first space of your next cycle. Just teleport to the abbess. DONE.

EDIT: In general, it seems like it will probably be a solid pick for any "escort" oriented scenario, as you'll likely cover most of the ground before you find the escort. I think maybe The House Always Wins might be another one other than Carnivale, but not 100% sure.

Edited by Soakman
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4 hours ago, DarkFate said:

Sefina would still be better off just using Elusive though.

These locations often DO have enemies on them, but you need to get to them regardless (Carnivale).

Also,  can you use elusive if you're not engaged with any enemies? What's the harm with 2 copies of each. Especially for that scenario. They're both events so Sefina can use either one depending on situation.

Edited by Soakman

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11 minutes ago, Soakman said:

These locations often DO have enemies on them, but you need to get to them regardless (Carnivale).

Also,  can you use elusive if you're not engaged with any enemies? And also, whats the harm with 2 copies of each. Especially for that scenario. They're both events so Sefina can use either one depending on situation.

Agreed on the first point.

I believe you can use Elusive even if you are not engaged with any enemies.  It doesn't have a "when engaged with enemies" clause and moving does change the board state.

Elusive is generally a better card, except for when it isn't.  :)

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Elusive is generally better yes, but most mystics have no access to it, so it is giving mystics the same ability -ish without it being better than the best card in the game, and Astral Travel is a very strong card in most games, sure it doesn't disengage enemies like elusive, but it does drag them with you so in certain scenarios you could drag the tough monsters right to the guardian.  Also in Where doom awaits and Lost in time and space that card is really good. its also reasonable in Rougaroux since he moves around so much

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I don't see why it would be good in Where Doom Awaits,  doesn't seem very compelling to me...  Lost in time and space it seems okay,  again, somebody has to get to the location first before you can use it.


Is Elusive the best card in the game?   I know they love it on the Drawn to the Flame podcast....  I'm sure that's in large part to the fast disengagement though, which Astral Travel doesn't do.   Anyway,  I think Elusive is allright,  it's not the best card in the game.  It's probably not even the best 0 level card in the game (Delve too Deep seems like it holds the title).  It's probably not even the best 0 level rogue card in the game.   I mean...  Lone Wolf?   Double-or-Nothing?  Sleight of Hand?  

It's just not good enough for the vast majority of scenarios.   Even if it is *very* good in House Always Wins, Carnivale, and Lost in Time and Space (and frankly, except for Carnivale I'd only go as far as "it's okay" for the other two) I'm not running a card that is good for 3 out of 17 scenarios.  It has to be good in every scenario for it to make it into my deck right now,  and the competition is only going to get tougher from here.

Edited by awp832

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That is a fair point comparing elusive to delve too deep, however, I would trade move on average 3 locations and disengage from just one enemy(which is the low side of average), that doesn't take a single action for all of the other cards you listed every single time, It is the only tactic card I run in my Mark Harrigan deck, and I run 2 copies in every single character who can take it, elusive is really that good, if you don't think so that is fine, that is your opinion and what I have stated is mine that's all there is to it.  In my opinion Astral Travel, though not as good as elusive, it still does something that is difficult to do outside of seeker, move more than once with a single action, so I will continue to use it, as through my many campaign plays it would have been useful far more times than not so that IMO makes it a good card that I will continue to use. 

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11 hours ago, awp832 said:

I don't see why it would be good in Where Doom Awaits,  doesn't seem very compelling to me...  Lost in time and space it seems okay,  again, somebody has to get to the location first before you can use it.


Is Elusive the best card in the game?   I know they love it on the Drawn to the Flame podcast....  I'm sure that's in large part to the fast disengagement though, which Astral Travel doesn't do.   Anyway,  I think Elusive is allright,  it's not the best card in the game.  It's probably not even the best 0 level card in the game (Delve too Deep seems like it holds the title).  It's probably not even the best 0 level rogue card in the game.   I mean...  Lone Wolf?   Double-or-Nothing?  Sleight of Hand?  

It's just not good enough for the vast majority of scenarios.   Even if it is *very* good in House Always Wins, Carnivale, and Lost in Time and Space (and frankly, except for Carnivale I'd only go as far as "it's okay" for the other two) I'm not running a card that is good for 3 out of 17 scenarios.  It has to be good in every scenario for it to make it into my deck right now,  and the competition is only going to get tougher from here.


Also, rogue features the ability to include adaptable for cases like these for cards that really are only great for a handful of situations. Knowing we were going to a party of some sort, my Sefina spent 1 XP after the first scenario to take adaptable and swap out two cards for fine clothes. I could very easily see this happening if I think we will need Astral Travel or Elusive. Remember, we ARE going to a location somewhat soon where people are locked into padded cells. It MIGHT be handy to pocket dimension travel to a neighbor's cell or the entrance once all the loons begin to escape.

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On 20-9-2017 at 3:32 AM, awp832 said:

I don't see why it would be good in Where Doom Awaits,  doesn't seem very compelling to me...  Lost in time and space it seems okay,  again, somebody has to get to the location first before you can use it.

Would be a fun way of catching up on The Essex County Express as well.

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True grit i think isn't that useful. I find that my guardians are more vulnerable in the horror department so more health doesn't really help and you are probably the one being engaged with the enemy anyway. 3 health for 3 cost might be relatively cheap but you probably got other better things that you want to pay for.

I think the strength of True Grit is the flexibility to soak damage for other investigators at your location. I am running it in a Mark deck that is paired with Daisy so she can push damage over while keeping Milan in play for example.

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