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Matrim

Ethical Discussion

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Just after some opinions.. I was playing a game on Friday and a character was in a room with 3 clues and 1 victory point. He took two of the clues using a spell and then in the next turn said he would go for the last clue (it was 1 shroud), the other two party members convinced him (after much discussion) not to go for the clue as to advance the act we all needed to be in a different room and if he got the clue he could not get to the room that turn meaning the agenda (at 5 at that point would be at 6 when we advanced the act and only needed 7 to end the game and we would probably need the time, 1 random extra doom and we loose then and there.) The player was persuaded and moved to the room in question.

Game over we worked out we had gained a mere 1 experience (not our most glorious outing).

 

I started receiving texts over the weekend on the lines of 'actually we have 2 experience, I should have cleared the room due to action A that I did earlier and I didn't realise so woohoo'. I disagree in that the board state at game end was one way and we agreed on the xp at game end. I don't like retrospectively awarding extra stuff as without a recording you cannot guarentee what occurred in  a game days before. IF a mistake had been made at the time then bad luck or perhaps a mistake wasn't made and the adjuster was confused or incorrect as to what occurred....Since it cannot be proved, regardless as to memory you should not get to obtain advantage.

 

I know its our campaign and our rules so we could just say, 'auto 10 xp at the end of each mission!' and no one could stop us but how would people here treat that event?

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Making bad calls and mistakes are part of the game (any game) and should be accepted. If you forgot to collect $200 when passing Go, you would not be allowed to claim it three rounds later either.

I would accept the fact you came out of the scenario with a single XP and continue to the next one.

 

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Yup, it's not like it cuts both ways either - I learned last week that we should have been damaging each other when failing to hit a monster engaged with someone else and its not like we went back and decided that so and so would have been killed as ( as it turns out I missed three times hitting an engaged monster in exactly that situation) and  so the engaged character should have one physical trauma 'added' and we would also not have rescued so and so , so that card gets removed...

I was curious as to how other gaming groups handled similar situations..

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I mean... nobody is going to be harmed by you giving yourself 1 extra xp,  or 9 extra xp as the case may be.    You can argue that your enjoyment of the game is slightly lessened, but their enjoyment of the game might be slightly increased.   I wouldn't really sweat it man, it's just a game.  Some people would absolutely let their opponents collect $200 for passing go 3 turns later.   I'm one of them.   Well, I would be if I played Monopoly, which I don't because it's awful, but still.  

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If you have one player who is adamant one way or the other, I'd go with that, it's certainly not worth making someone feel bad about it. If you decide to pick up an extra xp each, I doubt anyone will think the less of you. Do what makes it feel fun for as many of your group as possible, whilst trying not to really annoy anyone, I don't think this is strictly an ethical question, to be honest, the enjoyment and cohesion of your playing group is far more important.

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What I would do:

Take a vote next time you sit down and move on.

Also make a comment like, remember what your investigator does next time so we don't need to worry about it again.

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I always set a rule with my players before we sit down that we all agree on when it comes to going backwards. Usually it is permitted so long as it it within the same players turn. We personally, would never go back and change decisions or outcomes based on things we did that far back (let alone a day later), but at the same time, as others pointed out, it's not worth arguing over. 

I would maybe sit down and talk about it just so you know what you are going to do consistently going forward, but I would suggest being flexible. If you want a more 'permanent' or 'hardcore' rule guideline, I would find a player that is more okay with that unless this guy has a change of heart when you talk.

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We live with our choices.  It's easy to say "Well, we would have..." but you never know what's going to come out of the bag.  Token effects can do some pretty nasty things.

In this case, it sounds like you're also talking about an entire extra round which would mean another Mythos phase, more encounter cards, etc.  You really can't know what's going to come out of those, so retconning back is a bad idea.

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In the words of my wife...  "We didn't buy this game so that we could have a bad time".  If 1 XP given out to one player makes the difference between someone enjoying the game versus not enjoying the game, then I'd have no problem doing so.  Having said that, I tend to be quite competitive with myself and would never be the guy asking for the extra XP.  I also know that we all win when everyone has fun, so I don't mind fudging the rules for other people.

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Just wanted to pop back in here and mention this isn't really an ethical issue.  The use of the word makes me think that you may be adding weight to this decision that isn't warranted.

Like I mentioned earlier, just talk it out and don't care to much on the outcome.  

rsdockery likes this

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19 minutes ago, Jobu said:

Just wanted to pop back in here and mention this isn't really an ethical issue.  The use of the word makes me think that you may be adding weight to this decision that isn't warranted.

Like I mentioned earlier, just talk it out and don't care to much on the outcome.  

I think he's really asking "is it OK to 'cheat' at a cooperative game if everyone agrees to the cheating".  That's an ethical issue.

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6 hours ago, Scummy Rebel said:

I would say the only opinions that matter are your campaign-mates see what the group wants.

And your own opinion ofcourse.

Obviously you weren't cool with the way things went, otherwise you would not have posted here.

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i suppose i play for the role play. I don't care about win or loss or the optimal path. Cutting corners getting unlimited ammo or extra xp or starting with one weapon auto just does not appeal. Cuthulu games are dark and i expect to lose and die a lot. I don't want a film experience where the hero always wins. If we manage it within the rules then the success would feel better if corners have not been cut.

its not like we are playing at brutal we are only in standard...

 

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13 hours ago, KrisWall said:

I think he's really asking "is it OK to 'cheat' at a cooperative game if everyone agrees to the cheating".  That's an ethical issue.

I don't really think it is an ethical issue.  Its a cooperative game.  Heck if you are playing any game and all people agree to something in the game, ethics don't interact at all.

On top of that, I think the OP will have an easier time answering with his friends "How do we want to run our game?"  rather than "What is the right thing to do?"  That's why I am suggesting a change in mindset.

Personally I would say, we don't get the xp, but would be willing to be turned around.

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Don't view this as an "ethical" issue since it's the players versus the board and it's something that's being agreed to as a group.  You aren't cheating anyone by not following the rules to the letter.  The rules of the game are just there to create a system in which it all works so if you guys cheat like crazy, it's not immoral since nothing was done to anyone.  You can have ideological differences on how to play a co-op game but it's only an ethical issue if you are cheating against another player or doing stuff without other player's knowledge (like counting up the XP and giving your team more or less without them realizing).  House rules aren't an ethically issue if everyone is on the same page.

Fudging stuff like this is a hard tightrope to walk.  If you do it once, you open the door to doing it any time which trivializes the game, especially one designed around punishing mistakes or less than optimal use of actions.  On the other hand, it's a game and if everyone is going to have more fun playing it with that extra XP and feel like they were screwed out of it it's not worth being a stickler.  The point is for everyone to have fun.  Conversely if most people really want a strict playthrough campaign they would have less fun if mistakes are being forgiven.  You have to understand the players.

In this case I think what I would do if most players want that XP (but you obviously aren't really for it) would be to give it to the group and then make some ground rules for the future that mistakes can't be undone so that the game isn't trivialized and make sure everyone is cool with that.  

 

Edited by Radish

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13 hours ago, cheapmate said:

And your own opinion ofcourse.

Obviously you weren't cool with the way things went, otherwise you would not have posted here.

I figured it goes with out saying that he knows and values his own opinion so I didn't mention it LOL. I was just encouraging him not to use what others might say on here as an authority or justification for how they should decide what they do in their group.

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On 9/18/2017 at 7:24 PM, Scummy Rebel said:

I would say the only opinions that matter are your campaign-mates see what the group wants.

I would agree with this.  While someone might find it fun to do the rewind, you might find that the others in your group would have an unpleasant experience doing that rewind.  And if that is the case, then you'll just have to make a decision.  And it would probably be good to set the ground rule going forward after that discussion.

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For those unhappy at ethical one of its definitions is

being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, especially the standards of a profession:

so the wording is correct. I am not talking about 'cheating' as in this sort of game you are only cheating yourself (does cheating yourself make that cheating?)

 

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If you don't mention it will your friend even bring it up?

 

This strikes me as just a sort of frustrated comment that that will have been totally moved on from in the meantime by any mature adult.

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