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voltagejim

Too many ships now?

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I just saw that the assault gunboat is coming out, and am pumped, but it got me thinking...are there too many ships for X-wing now?  Has it crossed a line?  I want to see other ships like I-7 Howlrunner, A-9 Vigilance, Skipray blastboat, Missile boat, T-wing, and TIE Droid, but really what would ever set those apart from other ships?  With only going up to "5" on movements, things will start having the same movement dials as other ships.  And Now there are so many ships that have lots of attack die that all the ships that only get to roll 1 attack die or 2 get left in the dust.

 

Before when you had X-wing, Y-wing, A-wing, and B-wing and the equivalent for IMP's (Fighter, interceptor, bomber, and Advanced), there was a distinct seperation.  You had the agile, fast, lightly armored fighter, a heavy bomber with lots of hull, a middle ground fighter, and an advanced fighter.  What could FFG possibly do with all these other ships to mix things up?

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I would LOVE to see them take a year or two off of new ships to just release new content for our existing ships.  I want Interceptors, X-Wings, TIE Fighters, and B-Wings to see table time again.  We don't need broken wookie crap in the game, we need viable classic ships!

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Add special abilities.  The Epic abilities have trickled down to smaller ships, and we have yet to see a change in movement.  What about 4 bank?  U turns?  Range 4 primaries?  What about ships that don't deploy in a standard fashion (like Han).

Personally, I don't need to have every ship fill a new and unique role.  I just want more Star Wars.

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I think that FFG may release new content for existing ships and possibly new templates for unreleased, unspoiled new ships. Four banks/turns or a six straight is within the realm of possibility. Hopefully, if they do a new speed, bank/turn combo they will playtest the crap out of it so we don't end up with a hard hitting, fast, maneuverable, high health tank, AKA Jumpmaster.

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I flew TIE Bombers in a kit event on Sunday, and met everything from batwings and Aggressors, to Alpha Interceptors and B-wings. In the high meta, there may only be a few ships in doing the rounds at any one time, but in the semi-casual world most of us inhabit, more ships = more diversity.

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At the casual level more options is great.

At the competitive level it doesn't matter until the Jumpmaster no longer centers the meta on Dengar and things that can beat Dengar (like Dengar). It's the most egregiously out of line ship in the game (in cost) and two rounds of nerfbat have failed to knock it off its throne.

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Though I did get smashed by a B-wing (Ten), E-wing (Etan) and X-wing (Notorious B.I.G.G.S) last game, though to be fair I flew shoddy and the dice sucked. 
While looking at putting a squad together I thought maybe a couple B-wings with cannon along with Norra but here they'd fall out of the sky within two turns! Thinking that say I face 3/4 ships that are 3 red hitters with an average of at least two hits a time verses a B-wing that can save one hit out of every 3 attacks, that means I potentially have lost 1 1/2 ships before even really doing damage to the enemy!

With all these new ships and upgrades the old cool ships just aren't flying that well...except Dash.

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Considering only about a dozen are regularly seen anywho, number of craft in game is irrelevant, number of craft that can compete... that's an issue, and while I'm torqued that its such a small pool, no one at FFG is willing to make changes under the hood or make squadron composition rules that level the playing field.  So for the future, just pretend the old waves don't exist and then there'll seem to be more space to drop in new units... sigh

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3 hours ago, voltagejim said:

I want to see other ships like I-7 Howlrunner, A-9 Vigilance, Skipray blastboat, Missile boat, T-wing, and TIE Droid, but really what would ever set those apart from other ships?

**** FFGs makes up.  Just like they're doing with the Gunboat.

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Personally, I don't need to have every ship fill a new and unique role.  I just want more Star Wars.

So much this.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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Yeah too many ships. Too many gimicks start to show. Would be good to get stuff for existing ships, to buff old ones.But that way no one would buy new stuff, that means less money. 

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The design space is showing some limitations! 

They will keep introducing new things that expand the design space.

new maneuvers using same templates.

new ways to add and subtract dice. 

Thanks to the rules reference cards in the ship expansions the game is endlessly mutable. 

The real trick is keeping the game from collapsing under it's own weight. But I think power creep is doing a good soft rotation. 

I sure want to play more with the old ships though.

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I think the K-wing is when they should have introduced the medium base ship. It would have changed it's dynamic a bit, but opened up design space at the same time, and solved some problems for similarly odd choices for ships like the U-wing, and maybe the Silencer and Gunboat.

There are definitely some design space limitations evident, and they're trying to work around them, but the pace of releases hasn't slowed much so the dev time for these adaptations is probably equally constrained. Maybe even rushed in some cases.

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10 hours ago, NakedDex said:

I flew TIE Bombers in a kit event on Sunday, and met everything from batwings and Aggressors, to Alpha Interceptors and B-wings. In the high meta, there may only be a few ships in doing the rounds at any one time, but in the semi-casual world most of us inhabit, more ships = more diversity.

Exactly.  For narrative play, if I want to play Battle of Scarif, I still need the Zeta Shuttle.  If I want to play Battle of Endor, I still need Shuttle Tydirium.  If I want to play Battle of Naboo, I still need everything.

8 hours ago, Lobokai said:

Considering only about a dozen are regularly seen anywho, number of craft in game is irrelevant, number of craft that can compete... that's an issue, and while I'm torqued that its such a small pool, no one at FFG is willing to make changes under the hood or make squadron composition rules that level the playing field.  So for the future, just pretend the old waves don't exist and then there'll seem to be more space to drop in new units... sigh

I doubt it will matter.  You can redesign the sword any way you want, but only one thin line is the cutting edge.  And for competition, no one cares about anything but the cutting edge.

6 hours ago, TerTer said:

Yeah too many ships. Too many gimicks start to show. Would be good to get stuff for existing ships, to buff old ones.But that way no one would buy new stuff, that means less money. 

Technically, a lot of gimmicks could be good for game diversity.  Different players are going to like different gimmicks, and those ships will show up in their personal lists.  A different list will feature a different gimmick, and thus different ships.

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I wish they had went a different road and released multiple expansions of the same ship with new pilots and ship titles instead of leaving old ships behind... (Like the ace packs do but individually) so they will still sell cause power creep and I will still buy cause I like the ships...

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I do not think there are too many ships. Yes, there is a finite way to differentiate between the ships, but I don't think we've reached the point where there is nothing new to try. The dial is probably the biggest limiter, but the invention of S-loops and t-rolls shows there are ways to spruce up old templates. And while I'm a little iffy on new maneuvers like 4 banks and so on, they are an option. 

In the end, having ships be similar in game is okay because they would be similar in real life. Ships like B-Wings and Y-Wings are similar in roles. Light, fast Interceptor-types are useful to everybody, so it makes sense that we see different ships built on that theme. 

Now that being said, there is a part of me that agrees with the idea of taking some time off designing new stuff to focus more on giving some older ships a tune up. But there is also a part of me that wants many more ships that I love from Star Wars in the game, so I'm in a bit of a pickle.

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I think once they get to a certain point, they'll need to do variants on classic ships or the game will grow stagnant and die. Rebel and Scum ships would be simple: new paint jobs and squadron colors with a few new cards that give ships new upgrades and boosts. Boom. Done. Box 'em and ship 'em. The Imperials get a TAD tricky. You have the standard Imperial issue color scheme across the board already with TIEs... however, if they decided to release the Ace and Guard color schemes as single releases, that could work (though could kill the need for the Imperial Aces and Imperial Veterans sets).

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Wouldn't mind killing the need for imp aces because that is a HORRIBLE expac outside carnor jax, the free title, ptl and the beautiful models

Sounds like a lot until you remember all the other pilots are laughable

Imp veta can stand on its own

Honestly rather ffg just not release fix cards for OT ships. They're supposed to be simple and would therefore be great ways to get new players into the game (since they're OT and all), and muddling them with extra baggage detracts from that simplicity

Wish they'd just embrace Armada keywords to give maligned ships native abilities, or just not have them suck to begin with (or, in the Y's case, not have nontlt turrets suck)

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I will admit there are at least a couple more deep lore/legends ships that I would like to see (one of which is a giant stretch and I'm nearly certain we will never see unless this game lives for another 20 years), but I would not mind if they just cut the cord here and just went through a continual cycle of refreshing the existing ships, pilots, and upgrades until all the existing components fit correctly. It would be much better than the "cross your fingers and hope you have heard of and like the next power creeping ship" routine we've been having as of late. I think there is a lot of value in the idea of refining something you've already created as opposed to stacking on top of it and watching what's on the bottom crumble.

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