Aramur

Skill use: often vs rarely used skills

66 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Yeah. Why even roll for routine stuff? It's routine.

Unless there is the possibility of interesting success or failure, just narrate it or skip it.

 

Im all for keeping it Star Wars 'roleplaying', not Star Wars 'dice rolling'. However, I think there is something very interesting about rolling astrogation, cause if you fail... It can either take you longer, or you jump too far and land in a really bad spot. 

I feel that approach of 'its routine' kinda ruins the intrigue and constant on your toes action of the Star Wars universe. 

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17 minutes ago, arlo di'lya said:

Im all for keeping it Star Wars 'roleplaying', not Star Wars 'dice rolling'. However, I think there is something very interesting about rolling astrogation, cause if you fail... It can either take you longer, or you jump too far and land in a really bad spot. 

I feel that approach of 'its routine' kinda ruins the intrigue and constant on your toes action of the Star Wars universe. 

The problem is that if the players roll badly and - as you say - "land in a bad spot" or have some other hyperspace complication, it means the adventure is derailed while I (the GM) have to come up with stuff on the fly. It just gets in the way of the story. I suppose I could have something like "Otherspace" ready to go in case they have some kind of whacky hyperspace mishap, but in the middle of a specific adventure, it really just kills the pacing and the mood, as far as I'm concerned.

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32 minutes ago, Daronil said:

The problem is that if the players roll badly and - as you say - "land in a bad spot" or have some other hyperspace complication, it means the adventure is derailed while I (the GM) have to come up with stuff on the fly. It just gets in the way of the story. I suppose I could have something like "Otherspace" ready to go in case they have some kind of whacky hyperspace mishap, but in the middle of a specific adventure, it really just kills the pacing and the mood, as far as I'm concerned.

Well I don't mean it always results in jumping to the middle of nowhere... but it could mean it jumps in an awkward spot in the location you want.

eg. You jump to smugglers run, and you end up jumping a little closer to the asteroid belt and makes it a harder space planetary check than if you had got it right. 

You also could just make it a narrative issue, it takes you a little longer to figure out the exact spot you want to jump which costs 15mins. Doesn't seem like much, but as a GM that could mean the difference in the pcs being able to see something or not be able to see something that happens in the later game to where they jump to

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1 hour ago, arlo di'lya said:

m all for keeping it Star Wars 'roleplaying', not Star Wars 'dice rolling'. However, I think there is something very interesting about rolling astrogation, cause if you fail... It can either take you longer, or you jump too far and land in a really bad spot. 

I feel that approach of 'its routine' kinda ruins the intrigue and constant on your toes action of the Star Wars universe. 

If something could go wrong with as high a chance as a die roll implies, it's really not routine anymore.

So: do roll if you think it will enhance the current story or might trigger interesting consequences. But if the players are just getting from A to B while they're deep into an ongoing story, don't bother rolling. Otherwise you might just get lost in the sub-plot introduced to play out this complication.

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1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

If something could go wrong with as high a chance as a die roll implies, it's really not routine anymore.

So: do roll if you think it will enhance the current story or might trigger interesting consequences. But if the players are just getting from A to B while they're deep into an ongoing story, don't bother rolling. Otherwise you might just get lost in the sub-plot introduced to play out this complication.

I agree to a point. But again, failing the check doesn't mean they automatically jump to the blinking core worlds haha. It could just mean it makes a small difference

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In my experiences playing so far, Knowledge skills haven't gotten much use, and the only time Discipline has seen a lot of use was when I was playing a Move focused Consular (though it gets occasional use for strain recovery on characters with high Willpower). Resilience has never been tested at all, from what I can remember. Pilot: Planetary hasn't gotten use either, as no one's seen fit to break out airspeeders or the like instead of starfighters. And I can't think of an instance where Coordination was called for, though at least that has talents keyed to it.

On the other hand, social "offense" skills like Charm, Deception, etc. have all gotten a fair bit of use, as have combat skills, Computers, and Mechanics. Astrogation sees use maybe once per session, but it's rarely impactful.

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15 minutes ago, Kaigen said:

Resilience has never been tested at all, from what I can remember. Pilot: Planetary hasn't gotten use either, as no one's seen fit to break out airspeeders or the like instead of starfighters.

Well, count your blessings. I imagine we'll both have to make a few Resilience check in a certain PbP very soon, if rumors about poison-using critters turns out to be accurate. And in that same game Piloting (Planetary) has gotten a bit of use. Not much, but about as much as Piloting (Space) I would think.

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9 hours ago, Daronil said:

The problem is that if the players roll badly and - as you say - "land in a bad spot" or have some other hyperspace complication, it means the adventure is derailed while I (the GM) have to come up with stuff on the fly. It just gets in the way of the story. I suppose I could have something like "Otherspace" ready to go in case they have some kind of whacky hyperspace mishap, but in the middle of a specific adventure, it really just kills the pacing and the mood, as far as I'm concerned.

Sometimes those narrative effects can get in the way of the story no matter what skill is involved. While the benefits these results can provide are interesting twists to the story,  sometimes the twists just get annoying. Sure, you can ignore such results, but what one player finds entertaining, another finds annoying, so if you're using the system, either use it or don't but don't go halfway.

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7 hours ago, Kymrel said:

Well, count your blessings. I imagine we'll both have to make a few Resilience check in a certain PbP very soon, if rumors about poison-using critters turns out to be accurate. And in that same game Piloting (Planetary) has gotten a bit of use. Not much, but about as much as Piloting (Space) I would think.

Have we gotten use out of Pilot: Planetary? The only piloting I remember happening was the U-Wings and X-Wings during evac, which are space vehicles. Granted, we're about to get on speeder bikes, which may or may not lead to Piloting checks.

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3 hours ago, Kaigen said:

Have we gotten use out of Pilot: Planetary? The only piloting I remember happening was the U-Wings and X-Wings during evac, which are space vehicles. Granted, we're about to get on speeder bikes, which may or may not lead to Piloting checks.

We have indeed, soon after arriving at the base, during the patrol and flight back to base.

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6 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Sometimes those narrative effects can get in the way of the story no matter what skill is involved. While the benefits these results can provide are interesting twists to the story,  sometimes the twists just get annoying. Sure, you can ignore such results, but what one player finds entertaining, another finds annoying, so if you're using the system, either use it or don't but don't go halfway.

About the only way I would let it go through would be under stressful circumstances, and it would only ever be a delay - ie: hyperspace trip takes longer, or you lose contact with your fleet and have to re-establish when you arrive, etc. Nothing that will completely derail the adventure they're on. 

If it was like I used to run games in the old days, where it was basically just a big sandbox, then weird stuff happening with hyperspace wouldn't be an issue. But these days my group and I are more interested in telling a good story with a start, a middle, and an end, rather than just randomly wandering around. :)

 

Edited by Daronil

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6 hours ago, Daronil said:

About the only way I would let it go through would be under stressful circumstances, and it would only ever be a delay - ie: hyperspace trip takes longer, or you lose contact with your fleet and have to re-establish when you arrive, etc. Nothing that will completely derail the adventure they're on. 

If it was like I used to run games in the old days, where it was basically just a big sandbox, then weird stuff happening with hyperspace wouldn't be an issue. But these days my group and I are more interested in telling a good story with a start, a middle, and an end, rather than just randomly wandering around. :)

 

Have them land in the middle of an asteroid field, or near an imperial patrol etc, doesnt have to mean the the check was wrong, just that something happened with the jump, if its going to derail things, the drive made the jump but now there is smoke coming from the hyperdrive core and you need to speak with a junk dealer for a part, or have tge mechanic spend some time with it. 

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50 minutes ago, syrath said:

Have them land in the middle of an asteroid field, or near an imperial patrol etc, doesnt have to mean the the check was wrong, just that something happened with the jump, if its going to derail things, the drive made the jump but now there is smoke coming from the hyperdrive core and you need to speak with a junk dealer for a part, or have tge mechanic spend some time with it. 

Those are all good suggestions for Threat and Despair, but a failed (0 Success) Astrogation roll should, by definition, mean you didn't get to where you intended. You can try to say that it means you didn't get there when you intended, but fast/slow travel is also covered under Advantages/Threats, so that argument is crap. So, it all comes down to getting at least 1 net Success on Astrogation or else you really don't get to the adventure site.

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4 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Those are all good suggestions for Threat and Despair, but a failed (0 Success) Astrogation roll should, by definition, mean you didn't get to where you intended. You can try to say that it means you didn't get there when you intended, but fast/slow travel is also covered under Advantages/Threats, so that argument is crap. So, it all comes down to getting at least 1 net Success on Astrogation or else you really don't get to the adventure site.

That's entirely up to you.  "Fail forward" means they arrive at the adventure site but perhaps have to make a crash landing because they "failed" to account for the asteroid field.  I'm not sure why you would rationalize what a failure means and then complain that it's a problem.  It's not like you're shy about house-ruling other situations, so why not this?

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