Jump to content
Lord Tareq

'Infantry' combat - So no AT-AT's?

Recommended Posts

Since we always want the biggest thing that we can't have (ISD in X-wing, SSD in Armada), do you guys think they will make an AT-AT for this game.

It would have to be pretty darn big, but I think its doable, like Titans in WH40K (2 rearmost models):

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor titan 40k scale).

 

However I personally think they will not go much bigger than the AT-ST.

Edited by Lord Tareq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even the reaver Titan would be just as high as a leg of an in scale atat

 

https://dp1eoqdp1qht7.cloudfront.net/community/migrated/961/03c/152699/image-thumbnail-full

 

EDIT: And the question is would we actually like to see FFG publish a 500$ Model which we practically could field once every 5 years but we need to buy it to get some cards that we need to be competetive in tournaments...

Edited by Hannes Solo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1/48 scale is a figure thrown about as "close" to accurate (a bit small)

 

Using the wookiepediea dimensions that makes our model 46.8cm tall x 41.6 cm wide x 46.8cm long.   You "might" see a sliding scaled "epic" release or a BS from scratch  mid sized unit (like the xwing raider they created), but at the end of the day to what end? What can your opponents possibly bring to the table to match it? does it mean a rebel player is forced to bring a counter "just in case" allowing you to either bring or ignore them at random?

 

It's a nice idea, but is it playable outside of cinematic missions?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They could always create a new smaller class AT-AT. I am fairly sure they did that for x-wing with the Imperial epic ship. I don't think the Raider-class Corvette existed in the star wars universe until they wanted it for x-wing.

I think the next question would be, what would they counter it with, for the rebels? Will they have to create another new vehicle to counter a new AT-AT type vehicle?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hannes Solo said:

Regarding the sliding scale you have to keep in mind that while ot might look ok-ish compared to infantry it would look wrong to an in scale atst

Depends on what they did to the atst (or even if they didn't go that far and stopped at the atdp)

 

It worked with minimal grumbling in xwing... not sure how it would go here though.

 

My overall point still stands though after the size point. How do you make it balanced outside of mission specific senarios without pricing it so high it'll never see table time anyway?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

Depends on what they did to the atst (or even if they didn't go that far and stopped at the atdp)

 

It worked with minimal grumbling in xwing... not sure how it would go here though.

 

My overall point still stands though after the size point. How do you make it balanced outside of mission specific senarios without pricing it so high it'll never see table time anyway?

Which begs the question of how far will the go.

Many games use 6x4 instead of legions stated 6x3, so in theory expanding play an extra foot is possible up front. And 40k proved that you COULD clear out the floor and play essentially epic scale with tactical scale models. Not saying it was wise or popular, just that it's possible.

So, offhand, if AT-ATs are wanted, they've got room to sqeeze them in. Just not sure where it goes from there.

Also what I'm really wondering is the scaling. When FFG noticed a scaling error in another star wars Vehicle, they fixed it. Now scaling errors are common. WEG and others have had a bad habit of writing "meters" and meaning "feet" so there's plenty of vehicles that are 3.3 times larger than they should be. Correcting these errors and scaling the model at the intended size will open up several vehicles for tactical play. Of course there will still be howling from the otaku, but when aren't they howling?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've thought about how to implement the AT-AT.  It is possible, but expensive.  The advantage is the cost may be a bit cheaper as you would have to assemble it yourself. 

It would end up being like Epic Play in x-wing.

mechanic wise, you could give the AT-AT 5-8 white with its main cannons, against troopers.  Not likely to hit, but if it does, ouch.   Also, let each attack generate 5 suppression tokens.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ghostofman said:

So, offhand, if AT-ATs are wanted, they've got room to sqeeze them in. Just not sure where it goes from there.

Here's how I think it will go based on what they did with X-Wing.

If they think there's a market for AT-AT's and if they think they can produce one that looks good on the table, and that actually works in the game, and if they can make it at a price point that will sell... They'll make one.

I think it's safe to say there's a number of people who want one, but FFG isn't ForgeWorld and isn't going to produce a $500 model, or even a $250 one.  I'm willing to bet that they won't price anything over $100-150.  

So can the produce something that looks right even if it isn't exactly the correct scale for that price?  They also won't make it if they don't think it fits in the game, FFG of course wants to make money, but they honestly seem to care as much if not more about good game and having things fit then just what will make them a few bucks.   So even if there was a market and they could make one that looked ok for the price, if it doesn't fit in the game they won't make it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as people want it, I don't think it fits the (800 point) game.

This is meant to be a small corner of the war: units vying for specific objectives with only a relatively small band of rebels fighting a limited Imperial force. Sure there will be heavier units like the AT-ST and an air speeder, but unless you plan to play an epic version of Legion, there's no room, points-wise or other for such a large, potentially over-powered vehicle/unit.

It wouldn't be practical either. On a 3' x 6' board, the thing likely can't turn around fast enough to keep things "in arc" and how would the model itself rest on uneven terrain without falling over? The Chicken Walker is basically  the dangerous part of an AT-AT (the head) on two legs, and much more nimble.

I don't see the need for it outside of it looking cool on the battlefield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

As much as people want it, I don't think it fits the (800 point) game.

A lot of people seem to assume there will be an epic version of Legion like there is with X-Wing... Even though Armada and IA don't have one and likely never will.  So I don't assume Legion will either.  Which as you point out makes something the size of an AT-AT impracticable at this point value.

13 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

On a 3' x 6' board, the thing likely can't turn around fast enough to keep things "in arc" and how would the model itself rest on uneven terrain without falling over?

Per the TC interview with Alex it could in theory fit on the table.  But you're right it would have trouble targeting anything if the front lines get past it.  But that's really how it should work, the AT-AT's on Hoth had serious issues dealing with snow speeders for that reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Game wise I hope to see way more infantry sized and small vehicle options than epic-like stuff.

I can see an epic-like version down the line but nit until several years from now like they did with X-wing but it will probably be a different game mode that requires more table size, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, VanorDM said:

 So even if there was a market and they could make one that looked ok for the price, if it doesn't fit in the game they won't make it.

Oh there's clearly a market. As you said, FW proves people will buy a cool model even if it's silly huge for what they are doing.

I was more wondering how you adjust the game to squeeze it in. Special scenarios, expand the table, limit it's Abilities...

And the counter it kinda weird too. Cramming an AT-AT and something like a heavy tracker on to one board would be awkward. Having Airspeeders just trip them is also kinda weird when you start talking turn count, terrain and other effects. 

So I'm wondering how that'll play out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ghostofman said:

As you said, FW proves people will buy a cool model even if it's silly huge for what they are doing.

True, but I have noticed that 40k/AoS is the only game out there that has something like Forge World.  It's not like there wouldn't be a market for stuff like that for other games... But GW is the only one who does it. 

Wizkids did something similar with the Borg cube, that was massive, and there's X-Wing epic stuff.  But no one's really managed to really market super expensive models.

Just now, Ghostofman said:

So I'm wondering how that'll play out...

Plus you really need something to counter them on the other side.   Having play X-Wing epic games with only the CR-90 and GR-75 I can tell you it's not nearly as much fun when only one side has the big ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The numbers have been crunched in another thread. While a huge mini, its completely possible. If i remember its about 20 inches tall. And if it needs painted and assembled, unlike xwing, i could see a $100 price tag. These quotes of it costing $500 or being too big are exaggerated. Itll be huge, but not impossible. 

Edited by AldousSnow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, AldousSnow said:

The numbers have been crunched in another thread. While a huge mini, its completely possible. If i remember its about 20 inches tall. And if it needs painted and assembled, unlike xwing, i could see a $100 price tag. These quotes of it costing $500 or being too big are exaggerated. Itll be huge, but not impossible. 

You are underestimating the size of that thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ill admit, math is not my strong point. But Legion is a 1:48 scale game. That makes an average human of about 5 foot 7 into a 35mm mini fig. Thats established. If a human is 1.7 meters, and an All Terrain Armoured Transport is 22.5 meters, than the AT-AT is about 13.5 "troopers" tall. Thirteen and a half 35mm figures is just a hair under 17 inches. Thats the height and roughly the length. So thats the size.

An Imperial Raider from FFG Xwing  (the largest ship to date) is just a hair under 14 inches in length. Thats a difference of exactly 3 inches. Not that much. Yes, the height of an AT-AT is much greater, but its 75% legs. Account for the Raider being a table ready, pre-painted ship that came with another pre-painted ship clocking in at $100. We wont count the cards because both would contain this. That puts a theoretical, unassembled, un-painted Legion AT-AT at perhaps just a bit more. I say no more than $129.

*edit* to expound on table size

In regards to a official play area of 6x3 feet, you could put 4, in-scale AT-ATs end to end on the battlefield. 

Edited by AldousSnow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, OldSchoolEmpire said:

Totally agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I worry more about the mechanics of an AT-AT than the size. How does it navigate terrain and obstacles? How do they make it feel like it is difficult to turn without feeling useless? How do you represent the firepower while making it feel balanced? It should destroy (nearly) everything... but is that fun for either player?

It's not that it can be done, it's just difficult to do right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...