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Darth Rubi

X-Wing Videos - What Would You Like to See? (some market research)

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Hey All

 

A few of us from the Johannesburg Xwing community are busy planning an X-Wing video series, mainly focussed around battle reports giving an in depth look at (eventually) each of the available ships. The main aim to give each ship a chance to shine, and maybe help players decide what to buy/fly. We'll likely branch out to videos catering for different audiences as we get a bit more experience and reach, with a mix of scripted videos and battle reports.

 

We though it best to get a little "market research" in, so I'm asking for some help from this community on a few questions (feel free to answer whatever you'd like though):

  • what do you look for in X-wing videos?

  • is there anything you would like to see that isn't out there currently?

  • what puts you off videos?

  • is there anything in particular you'd change about current typical battle reports?

  • what about filming style (for battle reports)? Free hand, isometric, top down? Do you like seeing dice graphics and interviews?

 

Thanks in advance for the feedback!

Edited by Darth Rubi

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Commentary is usually make or break for me. Well, not really, I'll still watch a video, just with no audio...but it bugs me to listen to folks spout nonsense about what's going on in the game. It's hard to get a good mix of interesting discussion for competitive players and simple information for newer ones. 

Honestly, a lot of the time I'd rather just listen to the players. Just makes everything a lot more clear. 

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Hi Rubi,

  • First off there needs to be commentary with good quality sound, nothing puts me off quicker!
  • Top down is the best view.
  • Dice graphics are great, much better than a separate camera showing a dice tray.

One thing I always look out for are the types of match ups, so if you can include a graphic of the ships involved in the thumbnail that would be awesome. 

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8 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

Commentary is usually make or break for me. Well, not really, I'll still watch a video, just with no audio...but it bugs me to listen to folks spout nonsense about what's going on in the game. It's hard to get a good mix of interesting discussion for competitive players and simple information for newer ones. 

Honestly, a lot of the time I'd rather just listen to the players. Just makes everything a lot more clear. 

Interesting... haven't heard people speak against commentary yet, but good to know it's not for everyone and will keep it in mind. We'll likely be speeding battles up in parts to trim time, so player audio won't work all that well. We're planning on getting one or both of the players to help with voice over though, so at least the commentary shouldn't be too random!

 

9 minutes ago, BCooper85 said:

Hi Rubi,

  • First off there needs to be commentary with good quality sound, nothing puts me off quicker!
  • Top down is the best view.
  • Dice graphics are great, much better than a separate camera showing a dice tray.

One thing I always look out for are the types of match ups, so if you can include a graphic of the ships involved in the thumbnail that would be awesome. 

Thanks, definitely good points to keep in mind! Any chance you could elaborate on what kinds of match ups grab your attention?

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If you look at the team covenant battle vids, that's pretty much a gold standard. Decent overlay and (relatively) sane commentary. Not like watching the French national final where the commentators decided to have a random chat on air while the game happened in the background! A usually good stream let itself down there.

so, good overlay, on point commentary, non  mirror matches are what I look for.

 

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6 minutes ago, Darth Rubi said:

Thanks, definitely good points to keep in mind! Any chance you could elaborate on what kinds of match ups grab your attention?

Well I'm a rebel only player so there is some bias, I will always watch a match including a rebel list! I think the main thing is variety, a lot of people (like me) don't want to see FSR2 and Nym all the time :D

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Personally, I am not interested in watching a video of someone just playing a game of x-wing (that usually lasts over an hour), I have 2 small children and just don't have time for that. There also seems to be quite a lot of people doing videos like that already. I like to watch videos that are entertaining as well being informative, I think the guys at Shut Up & Sit Down are the masters at this. If you could capture some of their energy in a series about x-wing, I would definitely watch that.

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I would love to see videos of some tactics in the game.

  • How to set up the asteroids/debris and what to think about when doing so
  • The first few turns, what to think about and when do one decide to engage the enemy? How do I choose when to do that.
  • Tutorials on how to play in formation?

There's enough videos about people just playing with other people commentating on what they think the players are doing. I would like to see the players commentating their own game afterwards and give their opinions on why they did what they did.

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1 hour ago, Estarriol said:

If you look at the team covenant battle vids, that's pretty much a gold standard. Decent overlay and (relatively) sane commentary. Not like watching the French national final where the commentators decided to have a random chat on air while the game happened in the background! A usually good stream let itself down there.

so, good overlay, on point commentary, non  mirror matches are what I look for.

 

Yup, really enjoyed the Hoth Open coverage by Team Covenant, especially enjoyed the player interviews during the game. Since we'll mainly be filming specially to make reports, rather than tournament coverage, we should be able to keep match ups interesting and hopefully avoid mirrors!

 

1 hour ago, Jarval said:

I'd recommend taking a look at the Athena Games X-Wing videos.  There's some good quality content there, although it's mostly focused on tournament/event streams and product unboxings (with a game attached) to showcase new releases.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAOMH3T_VzssrOGoPSnqcJA

Thanks for the heads up, watching through some now

 

1 hour ago, BCooper85 said:

Well I'm a rebel only player so there is some bias, I will always watch a match including a rebel list! I think the main thing is variety, a lot of people (like me) don't want to see FSR2 and Nym all the time :D

Agreed - we definitely want to try feature interesting matches, and keep things thematic while still being relevant. If we do feature "meta lists" we'll try break down the thinking and approach to make it more interesting than just Nym bombing Nym

 

41 minutes ago, The Mighty Boushh said:

Personally, I am not interested in watching a video of someone just playing a game of x-wing (that usually lasts over an hour), I have 2 small children and just don't have time for that. There also seems to be quite a lot of people doing videos like that already. I like to watch videos that are entertaining as well being informative, I think the guys at Shut Up & Sit Down are the masters at this. If you could capture some of their energy in a series about x-wing, I would definitely watch that.

Love Shut Up and Sit Down! High standard to hit though, but we'll see what we can do though :-P

 

10 minutes ago, Whippoorwills said:

I would love to see videos of some tactics in the game.

  • How to set up the asteroids/debris and what to think about when doing so
  • The first few turns, what to think about and when do one decide to engage the enemy? How do I choose when to do that.
  • Tutorials on how to play in formation?

There's enough videos about people just playing with other people commentating on what they think the players are doing. I would like to see the players commentating their own game afterwards and give their opinions on why they did what they did.

The people definitely want tactical advice! We shall try to deliver :-D We're also planning on including at least one of the actual players on post match commentary, plus insert interviews to cover in-game thinking

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1 minute ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Good idea, But make the videos short.  Any longer than 10 minutes and I might skip it, at least watch it at 2x speed. 

10 minutes for a battle report?!?!?!

Personally, 30-40 minutes is a good length but it depends on the game itself.

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Just now, BCooper85 said:

10 minutes for a battle report?!?!?!

Personally, 30-40 minutes is a good length but it depends on the game itself.

I don't usually have much time to watch videos.  All it needs are the key turns, and if it is starring a particular ship, additional advice/short scenarios/on that ship afterwards.

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2 minutes ago, BCooper85 said:

10 minutes for a battle report?!?!?!

Personally, 30-40 minutes is a good length but it depends on the game itself.

Agreed, I don't see us cutting battle reports that short and keeping them as anything but a blur. I'm thinking up to about 40 minutes is fine without testing patience too much. We're probably going to make a 10-15 minute video discussing the featured ships and then a separate video for the battle itself.

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3 minutes ago, Darth Rubi said:

Agreed, I don't see us cutting battle reports that short and keeping them as anything but a blur. I'm thinking up to about 40 minutes is fine without testing patience too much. We're probably going to make a 10-15 minute video discussing the featured ships and then a separate video for the battle itself.

Oh, ok.  I understand that.  Look forward to seeing (some) of them:).

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27 minutes ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Oh, ok.  I understand that.  Look forward to seeing (some) of them:).

We'll be mixing things up after the first couple of vids though I imagine, so we may well do one focussed on key moments with certain list types (ie a Crack Swarm) showing short clips from a couple games rather than a lengthy video. But thanks for the future potential support either way! :-D

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Commentary is key for me. It needs to be clear, accurate and on-topic. I know mistakes happen in commentary and nobody's perfect, but some channels can be a bit annoying with commentators who either don't know the rules or mistake one pilot on the board for a different pilot and then end up arguing with each other about it. I'd also say it's important to make sure one commentator doesn't overpower any others and hog the mic constantly. On-topic really just means focussing on the game at hand. The odd anecdote about a recent game you played is probably OK, but at least try to make it relevant to the game being played.

Good overlays are also important to keep track of the action. They should track hull/shields, obviously, but also things like expended ordnance or the effects of critical hits. Speaking of, some nice graphics for the dice and showing the crits as the occur is good too. I'm not a huge fan of using a dice tray as quite often the light or angle makes it impossible to see the dice. A good variety of lists is also welcome. Some meta-lists, some interesting, potentially good lists and some random themed lists will help keep the channel interesting.

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1 hour ago, Akondo said:

My personal favorite channel is "Thrawn". They do a great job with random lists and clear video. The key to commentary for me is to stay focused on the match and not to get side tracked talking about random topics. 

The Thrawn channel is great! Really appreciate how they take the time to go through the lists being used before the games starts and it is all very concise.

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1 hour ago, Akondo said:

My personal favorite channel is "Thrawn". They do a great job with random lists and clear video. The key to commentary for me is to stay focused on the match and not to get side tracked talking about random topics. 

I love his content as well. His enthusiasm and the way he edits his videos so we aren't bored with movement of ships is key.  Clear audio is another thing he gets correct.  As mentioned before, if I can't hear the commentator, I'd rather just watch ships and dice rolls.

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About commentary, there is a different audience for different styles. Some games I watch, the commenters are quiet strictly too-the-point and could practically be commenting on a tennis match or golf tournament. That's good for serious tournaments, like Regionals or Worlds, but not always the best way in my opinion. Another example, is Sling Paint Gaming's Friday Night Fight (FNF) videos, where they are joking around and making silly voices, laughing, and overall everyone there is having a good time. The FNF games are beer and pretzel games, not serious tournaments, and I find the joking around very fun and enjoy it very much. Seeing people complain about their commentary (which I've seen in YT comments) is odd because there is a time and place, and I do not think  that everyone needs to try to cater to every possible audience member because sometimes we want very different things.

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I would like to see archetypes being shown:

- How to fly them

- How to fly against them

I know the meta changes pretty quick sometimes, but if you make some videos on what for example "Fair Ship Rebels" is, why it is strong, and what it is you need to do as both a player and an opponent then you are going to help a lot of people out.

Replace FSR with Nym/Miranda or Nym/Dengar or Dash/(Intensity)Poe, etc. and you'll have an evergreen source of things to show us.

Also:

Rock Placement, Approaches, basics of list building and how to set target priority.

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I think Trinity Squad Gaming (currently on hiatus, unfortunately) was my favorite channel after Outer Rim Smugglers stopped making content.  Good overlays, good explanations, pretty good commentary, and good editing.  And the players/commentators all have different playing styles, so they offer different perspectives on games.

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I second that my favorite is/was Trinity Squad Gaming. I'm really looking forward to them coming back from hiatus (which I hope they will). Sped up in all the right places so you could focus on the interesting parts of the match, and the commentary was generally very much on point. The PTL, through VTTV live has been improving by leaps and bounds recently, though they focus on live games (that you can rewatch after the fact).

I've also learned that you can double-tap (or more) on the right side of your device's screen in the Youtube app to fast forward by 10s increments. It makes watching longer games much more enjoyable, though you do miss huge chunks of banter on ex-live games.

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