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On 9/19/2017 at 0:16 PM, SirEuain said:

Not misunderstood.

Just evil.

 

Neither is accurate. Scorpion are not evil. They do the distasteful things that must be done to keep the Emperor's hands clean. They are a willing scapegoat for the court and the other clans which have a weaker convictions such as the Crane.

Edited by Krashwire

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4 hours ago, Krashwire said:

Neither is accurate. Scorpion are not evil. They do the distasteful things that must be done to keep the Emperor's hands clean. They are a willing scapegoat for the court and the other clans which have a weaker convictions such as the Crane.

What's funny is the Daidoji are basically Scorpion-but-Crane.  There isn't much difference between the two, except the Scorpion are honest about it.  They could lie like everyone else, but they don't - its how they keep the streets clean lol

Edited by shosuko

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On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 5:15 PM, Krashwire said:

Neither is accurate. Scorpion are not evil. They do the distasteful things that must be done to keep the Emperor's hands clean. They are a willing scapegoat for the court and the other clans which have a weaker convictions such as the Crane.

 

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 5:24 PM, selderane said:

Spider are evil.

Scorpion merely pretend to be evil

"Not misunderstood, just evil" was an old, informal motto the Scorpion had written on the official baseball caps.

I'd also point out that there's a difference between doing distasteful things while willingly being a scapegoat, and being evil -- and the line's pretty blurry. The best example, IMO, is from Jimen's win at the Emerald Championship, where he privately threatened Noritoshi with a mix of blackmail, extortion, and murder, which got Noritoshi to concede the Emerald Championship.

These are, objectively, evil acts. They're not baby-eating evil, and from a Scorpion perspective, they were necessary -- if Noritoshi blinked at a Scorpion doing this, he'd blink at the Kolat or Shadowlands doing the same -- but you don't hold a knife to a child's throat, even without intent to use it, without crossing a moral line.

The Scorpion are a different kind of evil than the Spider, and one of the biggest weaknesses with the old story is that AEG never got round to underlining that point.

 

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15 hours ago, SirEuain said:

The Scorpion are a different kind of evil than the Spider, and one of the biggest weaknesses with the old story is that AEG never got round to underlining that point.

1

It's there, because we're talking about it, but too many people need it written in big letters with crayons.

I don't know how much more AEG could have done without painting the Scorpion in heroic colors.  Maybe that's necessary?  Maybe a story needed to be told that showed the clan getting undeniably screwed, and willingly taking it on themselves, to save the Empire.

I suppose the Scorpion Coup story is that... sort of.

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The issue with calling the scorpion evil is that we, the reader, KNOW that everything they do is ultimately them doing their role to preserve and serve the empire. Sure they do immoral acts, every clan has skeletons in the closet, but their goals were never actually evil by way of the setting. The scorpion are one of the most "good guy" clans when taken into full account. While on an individual level they can spit out great villains, their end game is the betterment of society, a good goal.

Spider IS evil, their goal was to usurp the throne of Rokugan and establish their leader, the tainted and corrupted scion of the fallen Hantei line, upon it and usher in the age of Fu-Leng's worship. ALL of that is evil, down to its core. Spider had charecters that ranged from "eating babies" to legitimately not morally corrupt individuals, **** Daigotsu himself was a complicated character that had very good moments and traits to his personality as well. But the Spider clan's goals, their ultimate aim, were inherently evil and destructive. To the setting, both as a reader and through the general perspective of the empire Spider was EVIL.

 

When people say Scorpion aren't really evil, they are perfectly correct. The Scorpion clan as a whole is a hero that chooses to wear the mask of a villain. Sure, some scorpions are evil... but the clan at its core is not, its the great distinction.  

Spider is the clan of the leader of ****, sent to pave the way for the tainted Hantei to reclaim their throne and destroy the influences of the heavens all in their dark god's name. Sure they might act noble at times, in fact some of their more famous characters have done acts of heroism, their ultimate goal however is foul.

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With the Scorpion, the saying I like to keep in mind is: When your tool is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Yes, the Scorpion do the dirty deed for the sake of the Empire. That is how they were structured and that is what they have done since the time of Hantei.

 

BUT

Over all, Empire-threatening enemies that could be defeated by a dose of poison or a sneaky ninja attack are really, really rare.  Most of the time (Late AEG timeframe not withstanding), the Empire itself, and even the Emperor himself is not in any danger whatsoever, and the truly existential danger that does imperil the Empire is being faced by the Crab.  

So, for those centuries of no threats to the Empire, the Scorpion are using all their dishonorable skills, poison and threats to benefit their other charge:  themselves.  They don't consider the relative strengths of one clan verses another clan as cause to step in (that we have seen in the history), and have not intervened even when it looks like one clan will utterly crush another like the Otomo might.  Often they have favored the stronger.  So it ends up that, maybe once a century or less, a situation arises where the swift and dishonorable act of a Scorpion can save the day. And the rest of the time, they're just treating with the other clans dishonorably and hiding behind their charter.  Just as the Lion defend the Empire from its enemies...except that hardly ever happens and they just use their armies to fight the Lion enemies.

Edited by KakitaKaori

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21 minutes ago, KakitaKaori said:

With the Scorpion, the saying I like to keep in mind is: When your tool is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Yes, the Scorpion do the dirty deed for the sake of the Empire. That is how they were structured and that is what they have done since the time of Hantei.

 

BUT

Over all, Empire-threatening enemies that could be defeated by a dose of poison or a sneaky ninja attack are really, really rare.  Most of the time (Late AEG timeframe not withstanding), the Empire itself, and even the Emperor himself is not in any danger whatsoever, and the truly existential danger that does imperil the Empire is being faced by the Crab.  

So, for those centuries of no threats to the Empire, the Scorpion are using all their dishonorable skills, poison and threats to benefit their other charge:  themselves.  They don't consider the relative strengths of one clan verses another clan as cause to step in (that we have seen in the history), and have not intervened even when it looks like one clan will utterly crush another like the Otomo might.  Often they have favored the stronger.  So it ends up that, maybe once a century or less, a situation arises where the swift and dishonorable act of a Scorpion can save the day. And the rest of the time, they're just treating with the other clans dishonorably and hiding behind their charter.  Just as the Lion defend the Empire from its enemies...except that hardly ever happens and they just use their armies to fight the Lion enemies.

I think this is an excellent distinction.  Yes, the Scorpion can be relied on danger threatens the Empire, but that doesn't happen too often, so most of the time they're just a bunch of jerks.  We may forgive them for that because we know what they can do (probably why the other clans haven't banded together to just drive them out), but it doesn't necessarily excuse them.

As others have pointed out, while the Scorpion may be serving the Empire as a whole, individuals can be just as villainous as anyone else in Rokugan.  Part of the problem is that due to their underhanded tactics, this may be even harder to spot than it would be in other clans.  An unscrupulous leader could use the Scorpion for personal gain instead of for the benefit of the Empire, and would most people even be able to tell the difference?

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Crab can use a decent 1 cost conflict character in faction.  Our conflict characters are good, but I've been looking for ways to lower my cost curve in Crab. 

Also maybe a Dynasty character that looks for holdings.  Something as simple as "when this character enters play search the top 10 cards of your dynasty deck for a holding and put it in one of your provinces. Shuffle your dynasty deck".  I gotta imagine something like that is coming.  It would really give Rebuild a pump in value.

Edited by phillos

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Even when the Scorpion do have the "right" motivations, bear in mind that the Spider, at their worst, do evil because they don't respect good, are doing it to gain power, or find it fun to be cruel, or don't see any reason to spare people without need.

In contrast, the Scorpion Clan may poison your children, drive your wife mad, and frame you for murdering your lord, all because the Scorpion sincerely believe it's the right thing to do.

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17 minutes ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

I wouldn't mind a stronghold producing 8 fate. I think most of the unicorn's ills would be solved that way.

I'm sure you "wouldn't mind". heh
 

Having an extra Fate every Turn compared to your opponent is huge. If they did that, they'd have to give the Stronghold some serious weakness to balance it. Or, they'd have to make the characters cost more in many cases (as AEG did off and on for Cavalry), and then you'd be back to square one Unicorn are definitely one of the tougher clans to win consistently with against the whole field, but it might be better to give their movement tactics more "oomph" and see how that goes, before just handing them more Fate.

 

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Our one existing Unicorn Stronghold already HAS a serious weakness (it doesn't do anything, and that is a weakness compared to the six other strongholds which have an ability) AND the Unicorn characters cost more in many cases. The only way I can explain this is that FFG was always planning to put a Unicorn Stronghold in one of the early dynasty packs with 8 fate production (or a massive, John Wick - level hate for Unicorn).

Aggressive Moto -> it's a Matsu Berserker, only costing +1 and having a double disadvantage (counting 0 as worse than - in a skill w.r.t. Bayushi Yunako etc). 

Meishodo Wielder has 2/2 stats for 1 only half the time, whereas I consider those stats barely worth 1 fate. Doesn't even have cavalry.

Moto Youth is ALMOST a Matsu Berserker (again, only half the time). Once again having 0 rather than -.

Altansernai is by far the worst of the champions.

The Outrider has again 2/2 stats for 2 (see Meishodo Wielder for more on what I think about those stats), with an ability which is duplicated on the (hardly used) stronghold. Maybe the ability would be used when we get a better stronghold.

Tatsuo has once again a movement ability, a worse thing than Conflict characters from hand and stats which in another clan would cost 3 fate.

Utaku infantry seems designed for another game where characters do not leave the game often. 1 additional fate per turn might ensure some characters stay around longer and increase the value of the Infantry.

Yumino has again the 2/2 stats, only this time she costs 3. Yes, she can turn any card into a one turn Ornate Fan / Fine Katana ... that's not worth TWO fate. Three glory, in a clan that currently doesn't have that many ways of honoring is more a liability than an advantage.

Warrior Poet has AGAIN 2/2 stats for 3. Oh, and our new character from the first dynasty pack ALSO shares those stats. 

 

I can only conclude again what I said up above. Unicorn is supposed (from the beginning) to have an 8-fate stronghold (but it was not put in the core set for "eternal legality" purposes or so).

 

Or FFG just hates us.

 

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1 hour ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

Our one existing Unicorn Stronghold already HAS a serious weakness (it doesn't do anything, and that is a weakness compared to the six other strongholds which have an ability) AND the Unicorn characters cost more in many cases. The only way I can explain this is that FFG was always planning to put a Unicorn Stronghold in one of the early dynasty packs with 8 fate production (or a massive, John Wick - level hate for Unicorn).

Aggressive Moto -> it's a Matsu Berserker, only costing +1 and having a double disadvantage (counting 0 as worse than - in a skill w.r.t. Bayushi Yunako etc). 

Meishodo Wielder has 2/2 stats for 1 only half the time, whereas I consider those stats barely worth 1 fate. Doesn't even have cavalry.

Moto Youth is ALMOST a Matsu Berserker (again, only half the time). Once again having 0 rather than -.

Altansernai is by far the worst of the champions.

The Outrider has again 2/2 stats for 2 (see Meishodo Wielder for more on what I think about those stats), with an ability which is duplicated on the (hardly used) stronghold. Maybe the ability would be used when we get a better stronghold.

Tatsuo has once again a movement ability, a worse thing than Conflict characters from hand and stats which in another clan would cost 3 fate.

Utaku infantry seems designed for another game where characters do not leave the game often. 1 additional fate per turn might ensure some characters stay around longer and increase the value of the Infantry.

Yumino has again the 2/2 stats, only this time she costs 3. Yes, she can turn any card into a one turn Ornate Fan / Fine Katana ... that's not worth TWO fate. Three glory, in a clan that currently doesn't have that many ways of honoring is more a liability than an advantage.

Warrior Poet has AGAIN 2/2 stats for 3. Oh, and our new character from the first dynasty pack ALSO shares those stats. 

 

I can only conclude again what I said up above. Unicorn is supposed (from the beginning) to have an 8-fate stronghold (but it was not put in the core set for "eternal legality" purposes or so).

 

Or FFG just hates us.

 

After extensive amounts of playtesting with Unicorn against the other clans (at least 50+) I would have to disagree on the Fate production. I actually don't think that's much of a factor so much as Unicorn having lackluster and low impact actions on our dynasty cards. I believe that Unicorn is more Conflict reliant than any other clan due to it's design, which isn't inherently flawed but is a weakness that can be exploited. Though I do agree with you that many of our characters are sub par compared to the quality of those found in the other clans for the same cost.

I actually believe this is due to balancing because you have to keep in mind (and it's easy to forget once you get started making comparisons) that EVERY Cavalry Unicorn personality can potentially be put into play from the DISCARD PILE up to 3x per game for the cost of a single character. When you take this into account design decisions start to make a lot of sense.

Also, having a 0 in Political is still strong in Unicorn since we have an in faction card that let's change the conflict type at will. With a 0 you can still commit your character to that conflict without having to use the action on your stronghold when you need it most.

If I get some time later I can come back and share my thoughts with you on the characters listed above if you'd like? I had a lot of the same thoughts originally.

Edited by Shinjo Sousuke

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Having a "   " is not always better than having a zero. That's demonstratively incorrect. There are certainly times where you'd rather have a dash, but there are also many times where having a 0 is better.

The idea that Unicorn was "supposed to" have an 8-Fate SH right away is extreme conjecture, and I highly doubt it's the case.

Unicorn definitely has issues, and is harder to play well than (I think) it should be out of the core set. In particular, they're weaker in a single-core tournament than probably every other clan. However, it's not as bad as many people are making it out to be, and some players that have gone through a lot of 3-core test games are doing surprisingly well with Unicorn.

I do think that Unicorn need a better / more focused Conflict deck, and a few more immediately impactful actions on their Dynasty cards. It would make sense if  they get some powerful Reactions that trigger when they move, for instance. Yes, that's conditional, but if the effects were good enough, it could be both very useful and highly thematic.

 

Edited by Togashi Gao Shan

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5 hours ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

Our one existing Unicorn Stronghold already HAS a serious weakness (it doesn't do anything, and that is a weakness compared to the six other strongholds which have an ability) AND the Unicorn characters cost more in many cases. The only way I can explain this is that FFG was always planning to put a Unicorn Stronghold in one of the early dynasty packs with 8 fate production (or a massive, John Wick - level hate for Unicorn).

<snip>

Or FFG just hates us.

I'll be honest, this smacks of "I love my clan (color, faction, guild, army, ect.) but we are the weakest by far. Oh my." I see this from pretty much every game where there are distinctions such as clan. It's particularly more pronounced when there is a real identity associated to a group such as clan. Less so when there is a blurring of the distinctions like color in Magic (mind you this exact same still does happen).

I'm not trying to bash you in any way here Shinjo. I would caution you to meter your reaction and feelings with some specific caveats. 

1 - Do not evaluate the clan without using 3 cores and splash to cover weaknesses in your strategy.

2 - Some of the strongest cards in the core are neutral (all the clans can make great use of them).

3 - It will be a very short ramp up time until we have the first few boosters. These are going to radically shake up the game as we see it so far.

4 - Make sure you take time to play whatever you feel is kryptonite to Unicorn so you can see the weaknesses and strengths from both sides of the table. (I can be certain after playing against Unicorn with what you think is better than it you will have some "Oh ****" moments where you start to see how Unicorn can win.)

With some very few exceptions and usually only for a limited time, do I usually see that a specific clan, color, faction, ect. Is actually weaker than the other. Almost always it's the players not seeing the whole picture and not truly understanding how to play that given clan.

 

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I'll not deny I used a bit of hyperbole ;)

However, I have played a lot of games so far (using 2 cores and 30/30 decks, just to not have to proxy too many cards but still approximate 40/40 triplecore decks ), with multiple clans (I am not at all clan loyal EXCEPT on tournaments, I'll play everything). I can win with every clan I have played so far but Unicorn (although my latest iteration got to 3 provinces before succumbing, which is a lot of progress compared to the beginning). I have played Crane, Scorpion, Dragon and Lion and can win with each of those (even win more than lose). The latest iteration of the unicorn deck works because I stopped trying to play with Unicorn conflict cards (I went down to just Way of the Unicorn, Cavalry Reserves and Captive Audience - and perhaps a singleton We Are Ready). So, hallelujah, with subpar personalities (subpar due to the existence of one awesome conflict card, apparently - like I haven't spend 20 years having subpar personalities in the other CCG just because they had a relevant rulebook keyword) and a neutral conflict deck I can almost win - then why even play Unicorn? 

So, I used 2 cores with splash. The splash cards worked out really well. They would have worked equally well (or even better) in a non-Unicorn deck. The neutral cards are very good. They are equally good in other decks. The one card spoiled for Unicorn in the first booster is ANOTHER 3-cost 2/2 (which would be playable just like the Warrior Poet etc in an 8-fate stronghold ... I definitely notice my Unicorn deck is *almost* there, just occasionally too poor) which is not going to help us. 

Oh - and that thing about playing subpar personalities for the sake of one conflict event ... remember the existence of Forged Edict and the Crane Canceller. Even our strongest card has a big, big "don't go there" bullseye on it. And I know, this is the equivalent to "dies to doom blade" from that other card game, but still this makes the glaring weakness of Unicorn even bigger.

 

I tried - I really tried to get them to work, and I really hope they will get there. But I've put a lot of effort in it, and those decks would still be better by just tossing all the Unicorn cards and replacing them by their equivalents from e.g. Lion.

 

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7 hours ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

Stuff

This seems like a YMMV moment. I've managed to beat every clan (except Lion) with Unicorn. I'm convinced that beating Lion as Unicorn takes some luck because I have only come close. I have beaten Lion as other clans. I do agree with some of your assessment, but:

A late game Utaku Infantry is a beast. I build a board throughout my games and he is often a 6/6 or even 8/8 in the SH push. This is why he can't come back with Cav Reserves. That'd be seriously busted. Beast. If you are having problems imagining situations where you have 8 characters out at once, which I admit is on the high end of my experience, then it might be a personal fate management issue.

Shinjo Outrider can teleport, while bowed, to defend a province and then Rout someone. She can stay home straightened during either mil or pol and threaten to be equally effective in both battle types. Your opponent KNOWS she could show up and may overcommit to defense. Her buddy, Border Rider, is the best 2-cost in the game and I'd argue that Outrider is high on the same list. Tricksy Pony.

I just read your most recent post and I'd take Way of right out. It's best use is on turn 2 after you just went first on turn 1. That's a rare enough situation to dismiss WoU for now.

EDIT: The fact you are cutting I am Ready seems to confirm that you aren't putting fate on people. If you put fate on people, that card is the hotness. Don't be hype-blinded by "2-cost sucks" arguments and put some cash on those Riders, Shugs, and Infantries. They can't assassinate everything.

In general, our low cost people (except Aggressive Moto) are actually pretty quality. They have generally balanced stats and good abilities. The balanced stats means your conflict hand determines your strengths and that information is hidden to your opponent. The threat Unicorn represents is often just as important as the conflicts they take. Give your opponent bad options: Overcommit to defense or lose a province. That's always been the Way of the Unicorn.

Edited by Iuchi Toshimo

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1 hour ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

I'll not deny I used a bit of hyperbole ;)

However, I have played a lot of games so far (using 2 cores and 30/30 decks, just to not have to proxy too many cards but still approximate 40/40 triplecore decks ), with multiple clans (I am not at all clan loyal EXCEPT on tournaments, I'll play everything). I can win with every clan I have played so far but Unicorn (although my latest iteration got to 3 provinces before succumbing, which is a lot of progress compared to the beginning). I have played Crane, Scorpion, Dragon and Lion and can win with each of those (even win more than lose). The latest iteration of the unicorn deck works because I stopped trying to play with Unicorn conflict cards (I went down to just Way of the Unicorn, Cavalry Reserves and Captive Audience - and perhaps a singleton We Are Ready). So, hallelujah, with subpar personalities (subpar due to the existence of one awesome conflict card, apparently - like I haven't spend 20 years having subpar personalities in the other CCG just because they had a relevant rulebook keyword) and a neutral conflict deck I can almost win - then why even play Unicorn? 

So, I used 2 cores with splash. The splash cards worked out really well. They would have worked equally well (or even better) in a non-Unicorn deck. The neutral cards are very good. They are equally good in other decks. The one card spoiled for Unicorn in the first booster is ANOTHER 3-cost 2/2 (which would be playable just like the Warrior Poet etc in an 8-fate stronghold ... I definitely notice my Unicorn deck is *almost* there, just occasionally too poor) which is not going to help us. 

Oh - and that thing about playing subpar personalities for the sake of one conflict event ... remember the existence of Forged Edict and the Crane Canceller. Even our strongest card has a big, big "don't go there" bullseye on it. And I know, this is the equivalent to "dies to doom blade" from that other card game, but still this makes the glaring weakness of Unicorn even bigger.

 

I tried - I really tried to get them to work, and I really hope they will get there. But I've put a lot of effort in it, and those decks would still be better by just tossing all the Unicorn cards and replacing them by their equivalents from e.g. Lion.

 

That's a fair assessment based on personal experience overall, can't really argue that. My experience playing Unicorn has been quite different over the last few weeks. ALL of the 50+ games I've played were Unicorn 3 Core and I've had very different results it seems. I think the consistency of 3 Cores vs. 2 Cores does make a difference.

In my games overall I would say I have about a 60-70% win rate so far. Interestingly enough the clans I struggle most against are Dragon and Crab. Against Dragon I have about a 40-50% win rate and with Crab I have a 20-30% rate. Keep in mind these win rates are against players I consider to hold equal skill to mine after about a month or so of daily play since the pre-release at GenCon. (I work at a game store!)

I find that while the Unicorn Dynasty cards may feel sub par in comparison to those of other clans they make up for it in versatility/synergy. Sure they lack strong actions now but I suspect we will see the strength of their actions over the next few expansions. Fate has never been as much of a concern so much as efficiency in my opinion but that could also be due to differences in our play styles?

The cards that I find the least effective in the Unicorn Conflict deck are Ide Messenger and Breakthrough which I cut from the deck. Both cards have potential but don't provide enough impact for either their cost or effect, every other Unicorn card in the deck has been nothing short of golden.

Forged Edict and Voice of Honor do exist but you have to remember that they can only run 3 of each for a total of 6 at most (both requiring different conditions to trigger). Against those two clans I would say that I have a 70-80% win rate but I approach those matches differently than others due to the fact that they have the potential for negation. Against both of these clans I try to leverage the fact that as Unicorn I simply have more standing military than them on any given turn. Between the two clans the only two personalities that give me pause are Yunako and Kaezin. Using your inherent military strength to your advantage you simply force plays from your opponent. Play as if you don't have Cavalry Reserves in hand, it works for me at least, because you actually don't need it to win as much as you might think. That's not to undervalue the card though, it swings games wildly especially when coupled with Utaku Infantry (a phenomenal 1 Fate personality in Unicorn) or For Greater Glory. When asked to "save" a province or let it break because of Charge (x3) or Captive Audience (x3) my opponent often opts to negate it giving me the option to make the play that I wanted to (think of it as a feint). Sure they can negate 3 actions a game (on average) but they can't stop everything and Unicorn has access to solid card draw, which usually results in me seeing about 2x Cavalry Reserves in a game.

Another thing to consider is the quality of actions you can put on personalities simply because Cavalry Reserves exists. If Aggressive Moto had an action, a useful one, for example "Action: Target an enemy character with lower MIL skill -- send them home/bow them. You suddenly have 9 MIL skill and 3x that action in play for the cost of 1 Warrior Poet (also an great card).

Again I can share my thoughts on any Unicorn cards if you're interested. I can tell that you really want to make the deck/clan work.

Edit: Touching on what Toshimo said above. Cards like Utaku Infantry and Swift Magistrate are shining examples of why not all Unicorn cards can have Cavalry printed on them.

Edited by Shinjo Sousuke

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@Toshimo:
thanks for the feedback! 

I am not a big fan of Utaku Infantry due to the fact that you have to build up to a critical mass before he becomes actually good. I have had eight characters in play before, but that was with Lion. Unicorn is usually 3-5. Basically, Utaku Infantry for me are "if I overcommit, these become equally good as a Matsu Berserker (admittedly useable in both MIL and POL)". 

Border Rider I like a lot! Outrider just seems to get assassinated, dishonored etc too much to really be worth the two fate. Movement is just so much less rewarding here than it was in O5R...

Way of should indeed be cut. I keep it because ... it's "Our Way". It feels to me that if I even have to cut my "Way of " card to make my clan work, then why bother? 

I would much prefer it if I Am Ready would just cost 2 fate. I never seem to have the right things come together for I am Ready. Just when I need it, I either don't have fate on characters, those characters are not the ones I want to straighten etc etc. I understand I need to put fate on guys, but I seem to come short in money when I do this too much. 

@Sousuke:
Maybe 3 cores makes the difference! I didn't want to "free up" that many sleeves from other projects, and thought to keep experimenting with triplecore until after my boxes arrive :).You give me hope!

I must say that I began my new5R experience with Unicorn, and only recently picked them up again. With what I learned from playing Crane, Scorpion and Dragon, my more recent games with Unicorn (all vs Scorpion) were far more interesting & close. Just no wins yet :P

(Just for good measure: my 2-core 30/30 decks, no role):

Ancestral Lands
Endless Plains
Manicured Garden
Meditations on the Tao
Shameful Display

2x Aggressive Moto
2x Border Rider
2x Giver of Gifts
2x Ide Trader
2x Meishodo Wielder
2x Moto Horde
2x Moto Youth
2x Shinjo Altansernai
2x Shinjo Outrider
2x Shinjo Tatsuo
2x Utaku Infantry
2x Utaku Yumino
3x Otomo Courtier
3x Imperial Storehouse

2x Admit Defeat
2x Assassination
2x Banzai
2x Captive Audience
2x Cavalry Reserves
2x Charge
3x Court Games
2x Fine Katana
3x For Shame
1x I Am Ready
3x ornate Fan
2x Political Rival
2x Steward of Law
2x Way of the Unicorn

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1 hour ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

 

I am not a big fan of Utaku Infantry due to the fact that you have to build up to a critical mass before he becomes actually good. I have had eight characters in play before, but that was with Lion. Unicorn is usually 3-5. Basically, Utaku Infantry for me are "if I overcommit, these become equally good as a Matsu Berserker (admittedly useable in both MIL and POL)". 

 

Utaku Infantry is always a 1/1/1 at a minimum. I think you are underestimating the card.

As for deck tech, I'd suggest posting over at http://www.unicornclan.com/forum/

You could always just lurk there and look at existing deck tech instead of posting.

And, I'm not saying Unicorn doesn't need something - it does. I just think it's more realistic to work within printed cards like: the SH, Way of, and Breakthrough, than it is to hope they burn it to the ground and start over.

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Despite Unicorn being the weakest clan for single core, I plan on playing them at the release event next week......unless there is overwhelming local support for the clan.

In testing with Unicorn for constructed play (3 core) I can see a couple ways to approach them.  The most obvious it all your good stuff cavalry and Calvary Reserves.  If you do this I would recommend a Scorpion pairing as this the the most reliable way to give your event the protection it needs.  If you are not going full in aggressive CR bomb....a more measured approach with a Dragon, Lion, or Crab pairing and using Captive Audience defensively send to work well.

Interestigly enough, these were interactions I discovered in single core testing and expanded upon for 3 core.

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I've been thinking how interesting it would be for the crab to have an action or character that would bring an attacking opponent into the battle.

Some friends have complained about lacking an advantage to play on the defensive, since the attacker has some...

Bringing an attacker into the battle would help prevent solo water ring attacks by scouts, ensure the opponents only declare a conflict that turn, or even mess up opponent's defense for your next attack, and also gives protection from cards such as favored ground and you can combo with fallen in battle.

I particularly like the defensive theme more than the dishonor to the crab, do you think a card like that can be OP?

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