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This may be better as its own topic but I have seen lots of commentary that winning via honor and dishonor leans on opponent mistakes (dishonor less so than honor) so that the main strategy is province breaking. I am wondering if this is intentional. One issue that came up during the designer panel Team Covenant hosted was that in O5R it sometimes felt like the players were playing completely different games. I wonder if staggering out the ease of victory conditions was one of the approaches to addressing this. If province breaking is more viable than dishonoring then, on the whole, its more likely that both players will be fighting to break provinces and it will feel like there is more player interaction. Meanwhile, the dishonor/honor win conditions are present more to contextualize the battle for provinces, generating more L5R-specific flavor to the main event.

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1 hour ago, shosuko said:

I agree.  In the games I've played I've noticed that a defensive play style really grinds the game out...  I think honor / dishonor are supposed to be backup win conditions for when a game goes long, but there aren't enough factors that push towards this.  I wouldn't mind seeing new cards that help a defensive player either gain honor, or cause dishonor through a defensive play style.  The problem is that you can't just reward a player for not attacking, and almost anything that can help defense win would help everyone win.

 

I don't think adding a win condition like honor or dishonor to winning on defense would be the right call.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of "After you win a <something> conflict as the defender, <do something relatively powerful>."

 

As far as what, I'm not sure. Maybe bow an opponent's character at home or something along those lines. Something that encourages attacking while also making defending a valid theme worth building around.

Edited by Joe From Cincinnati

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3 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

 

I don't think adding a win condition like honor or dishonor to winning on defense would be the right call.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of "After you win a <something> conflict as the defender, <do something relatively powerful."

 

As far as what, I'm not sure. Maybe bow an opponent's character at home or something along those lines. Something that encourages attacking while also making defending a valid theme worth building around.

One of the things I thought would have been really cool with the Unicorn province Enless Plains - I thought it might be cool if the effect was to break the province, and move the battle to one of your opponent's provinces with you as the attacker.  In this way you give up a province for the potential to take 3 provinces as attacker in 1 turn.  That might be fun ^_^

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8 minutes ago, shosuko said:

One of the things I thought would have been really cool with the Unicorn province Enless Plains - I thought it might be cool if the effect was to break the province, and move the battle to one of your opponent's provinces with you as the attacker.  In this way you give up a province for the potential to take 3 provinces as attacker in 1 turn.  That might be fun ^_^

Mind = blown. I didn't think a province that breaks itself would ever be tempting, but that would be an awesome effect. As of right now EP is way too easy to avoid, or mitigate.

Edited by Virtigo

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4 minutes ago, Virtigo said:

Mind = blown. I didn't think a province that breaks itself would ever be tempting, but that would be an awesome effect. As of right now EP is way too easy to avoice

Way too easy to avoid - and not that great of an effect.  Characters leave the game every turn, character removal can be impactful but with mono no aware it is far less detrimental.  The attacking character may have been as good as discarded once the conflict completed anyway.  A province break is on a completely different level of loss.

Edited by shosuko

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6 hours ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Phoenix needs a 5 cost shugenja that is untouchable by the opponent's ring effects, allows me to remove fate from my opponent's characters each combat I  win, influences the ring to open up synergies with other cards, and is a respectable body that, when honored, becomes a tower that my opponents will have insane difficulty facing.

Of course that's magical Christmas land so really any 2 cost Shugenja would be really nice. ;) 

Um. I think that's kaede

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We have access to bushi, courtier and shugenja stuff, but not enough of any one thing. This makes our decks susceptible to "I have bushi cards and shugenja people" runs of bad luck. This is exacerbated by our desire to draw fewer cards as an advancement of our primary win conditions.

I would design a character that was 2 for a 2/1, 2 glory. Action: give your target character bushi, shugenja, or courtier until the end of the turn.

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34 minutes ago, Nickciufi said:

 

I would design a character that was 2 for a 2/1, 2 glory. Action: give your target character bushi, shugenja, or courtier until the end of the turn.

Anything that makes Tsukune a shugenja...

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1 hour ago, shosuko said:

One of the things I thought would have been really cool with the Unicorn province Enless Plains - I thought it might be cool if the effect was to break the province, and move the battle to one of your opponent's provinces with you as the attacker.  In this way you give up a province for the potential to take 3 provinces as attacker in 1 turn.  That might be fun ^_^

That would've been an awesome swig in momentum for Unicorn.

The ability to choose which personality is discarded by Altansarnai's reaction would also make her much stronger and is something I'd like to see personally. In my experience my opponent typically discards the personality they used to defend against Altansarnai so it's not like they really lost anything.

Her ability might as well read, "Your opponent should consider defending."

I still get a lot of mileage out of her though.

Edited by Shinjo Sousuke

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If Dragon 'Volron' is going to remain one of our main focuses, it really needs something like:

Two Hands

Event, 0 cost.

Interrupt: When an opponent's card is targeting your character, bow a Weapon attached to that character - negate all effects of the opponent's card that would bow or discard your character.

 

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24 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

If Dragon 'Volron' is going to remain one of our main focuses, it really needs something like:

Two Hands

Event, 0 cost.

Interrupt: When an opponent's card is targeting your character, bow a Weapon attached to that character - negate all effects of the opponent's card that would bow or discard your character.

 

Yeah... kinda...  I mean, you can splash Crane and use their event cancel.  If I were playing Dragon I would probably want a 3+ cost character honored and equipped to dominate the board.  Dragon has a monk that can honor himself too, good stuff.  If Dragon had their own event cancel it might be too OP, but maybe if it was more limited like you describe - not necessarily cancelling it outright, but preventing your character from being bowed or discarded by its effects.  Maybe require the character to have 2 equips for flavor / because the other cancels all have other cost / requirements so this should too?

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crane action. switch military to political duel, after honor dials are set but before they are revealed.

phoenix. Generico the self honoring shugenja. 2 cost basic stats honors themself when you are doing something predictable and boring....

Lion. either an action card that gains honor. or an obstinate recruit that doesn't hamper card draw.

scorpion. economy card. maybe a political duel that generates fate.

dragon. character that plays attachments from the discard pile.

crab. more sacrifice stuff. like something that lets you transfer fate off of sacrificed characters. maybe a character who puts 1 fate on themselves when they enter play and transfers it if they are used as a sacrifice.

unicorn. just like a sticker book with different ponies you can collect and swap with friends...

 

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15 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

 

I don't think adding a win condition like honor or dishonor to winning on defense would be the right call.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of "After you win a <something> conflict as the defender, <do something relatively powerful>."

 

As far as what, I'm not sure. Maybe bow an opponent's character at home or something along those lines. Something that encourages attacking while also making defending a valid theme worth building around.

Yes the main theme of the crab is defense, there's a need to give it more support.

In the last editions of the O5R there were many decks of dishonor, nothing against the Yasuki but for me the Crab that really matter are the Bushi.

Putting the dishonor theme first seems like valuing Kitsu more than Akodo / Matsu in the Lion.

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I would like an attachment that says "When attached character wins an unopposed conflict add the Air ring to the ring effects and resolve both ring effects, if province breaks resolve the Air ring effects a second time."

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I want a +1PS holding that reads, "Interrupt: When you successfully win a conflict as a defender at this province, discard this holding and gain two honor." and "Forced Interrupt: When you lose a conflict as a defender at this province, discard this holding and lose 2 honor."  With an action of "Gain one honor"

So its a holding that honor players can use to bait attacks to try to gain honor. You get at least one honor a turn, then your opponent can choose to swing at it to potentially knock it down, but if they fail then you get even more honor.

 

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-A stronghold with Province Strength

-A champion with a functional ability

-One in-Clan Event that is 0 fate and does something to actively advance my win condition.

-A holding, at all

-One in-Clan province that has at least 3 PS and does something useful without blowing itself up.

-Something to help with the high cost of being purple.

 

Any of these would be nice.

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Seconded most of what fellow Uni's said, but with slightly less salt. I'm waiting for dharmatic balance to be achieved with the inevitable Rokugan Wars (Rune Wars Mini variant... please...?) release where mounted archers must invariably be as hilariously OP as they are in all settings and game mechanics. Turns out it works that way in real life, too.

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7 hours ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

If Dragon 'Volron' is going to remain one of our main focuses, it really needs something like:

Two Hands

Event, 0 cost.

Interrupt: When an opponent's card is targeting your character, bow a Weapon attached to that character - negate all effects of the opponent's card that would bow or discard your character.

 

Because that's what we need. More negation haha. The 6 event cancel Crane Scorpion deck isn't enough. We need to get Dragon in on that action now ;).

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