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Size comparison of the B/SF-17 to the T-70 X-Wing

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2 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Perhaps you are having a problem telling the two actresses apart..  

Kelli Marie Tran plays Rose Tico, while her sister - a resistance gunner named Paige Tico, is played by Veronica Ngo, who is 1.71 m tall.

You are right! I assumed they were the same person. I have tried to avoid reading any spoilers from the next movie and I didn't know there were two of them.

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12 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I've read quite a fair bit. Enough to know that we still have arguments about scale to this day, even though there are occasionally definitive answers some choose to ignore because it doesn't suit their agenda.

The EU is a mess, and I'm glad we've left all the bad stuff from it behind, we needed to. So much of it was essentially plague material.

Now am I gonna sit here and say the quality control of Disney's books is the best? Of course not, but you know what? It's still just starting and we still have a bunch of chances to get a lot of good things right. "Aftermath" was really quite awful for example, but I've heard nothing but stellar things about, "Tarkin".

You act like I'm not even a fan of EU material, but let me tell you that you couldn't be more wrong. The thing is, I can admit there was a serious bout of dumpster fires for a very long time. Dark Empire for instance, just isn't that good. New Jedi Order? Absolute hamhanded trash.

Do not even get me started on the Vong, or the 137 ABY period. Cade Skywalker has to be the edgiest damned character I have ever seen, or at least very very close. He puts Shadow The Hedgehog to shame, genuinely.

And you want me to sit here.

REALLY SIT HERE.

And just accept that the (KO/SW)TOR era really took place four-to-three thousand years ago WITH LITTLE TO NO TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT?
 

If so you're out of your mind, man.

Don't sit here and question whether or not another fan has his chops, none of us are very far ahead of each other on this forum. Guarantee 80% of the X-Wing players on a nerdy internet forum know their EU.

I didn't mean to insult you in any way. It was just an honest question. No need to go full ballistic.

And yes I too know there is a good bunch of crap in the EU (this must happen during 30 years, hundreds of novels and comics and several games). Have I ever said otherwise? All I said was that trying to clear those messups through retcon, etc. is still better than going the WH40k route of "everything is canon. Even the contradictions."
I'm not hating on Disney, even though the sequels are not entirely my stuff. It's just that I'll stay fan of the EU (and again, yes I know there is crap in it.).
Again: what I said was that Hidalgos opinion about how to treat contradictions in canon goes completely against the promoted policy of avoiding contradictions like the EU had. Which is sad as it is one of the things I like about the new canon.

 

Regarding KotOR era and little to no tech advancement.
Yep, I'm still annyoed that they dropped the style of the old Old Republic comics - which was much more archaic - in favour of something more people can relate to. I'm totally on your side that it's unfitting.
But: All in all if you consider the SW universe moving on a tech plateu (aka. they have reached the pinnacle of whats obtainable with their technology and ressources) it's not completely unrealistic. Our civilisation has been sitting around for 4000 years stabbing each other with metal blades and squabbeling between proto democracies and feudalism until something notably happened to change this. So our history is clearly out of mind if I can follow you ;)


End regarding the NJO: I know exactly as many people who like them as I know people who dislike them. It's just that the dislike crowd tends to scream a bit louder. But thats just opinion.

Please don't start with the legacy era... Here we can agree that it was bull.

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Why not wait for the movie, the cross sections book, and the actual physical model before criticising the scale.

I've noticed that FFG pictures can sometimes look wrong. Then the physical miniature arrives and it looks right. Photographs can be misleading, and pausing a piece of a trailer video without seeing the actual scene in it's entirety is also misleading. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Ghost Mouse said:

Why not wait for the movie, the cross sections book, and the actual physical model before criticising the scale.

I've noticed that FFG pictures can sometimes look wrong. Then the physical miniature arrives and it looks right. Photographs can be misleading, and pausing a piece of a trailer video without seeing the actual scene in it's entirety is also misleading. 

 

Perhaps Star Wars isn't the game for you.. you're display of logic makes you sound positively  Vulcan. :P 

The gunboat is coming, so many have to latch onto something else to whine about, I guess?

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36 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Perhaps Star Wars isn't the game for you.. you're display of logic makes you sound positively  Vulcan. :P 

The gunboat is coming, so many have to latch onto something else to whine about, I guess?

:lol: I am the contradiction in human form. I am both logical and a Star Wars fan.

 

Live long and prosper.

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10 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Your posts are fascinating. You are so wrong but so convinced to be right.

Look at Azraspe‘s post if you want to go by ball turret, which puts the entire ship between 27 and 36m, and clearly on a large base.

ha, same to you. FFG has put fully 2/3 of the ships outside of 1/270 scale, both bigger and smaller, so im not impressed with your constant attacks on anyone who points it out.  just look at the airlock doors on all the large base ships. the decimator, ghost, Upsilon, and U-wing are not in the same scale. you can poorly photoshop lines on whatever you want, but it doesnt make 2'×1' door accomodate an average adult.

i notice you specifically avoided my math on the Upsilon, probably because it makes you uncomfortable to be wrong. whatever, we havent seen this model in the flesh, so maybe theyll scale it up to true 1/270. 

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1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

you specifically avoided my math on the Upsilon, probably because it makes you uncomfortable to be wrong. whatever, we havent seen this model in the flesh, so maybe theyll scale it up to true 1/270. 

Wrong again. It does not matter at all, whatsoever, how wrong the Upsilon is.

Azraspe measured the ship to be between 23 and 37m iirc, based on the turret ball and actor size. In 1/450 scale that would be between 51 and 82mm.

But the model is above 90mm. So you are very, very wrong and it‘s so easy to see.

Edited by GreenDragoon

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15 hours ago, RogueLeader42 said:

I didn't mean to insult you in any way. It was just an honest question. No need to go full ballistic.

And yes I too know there is a good bunch of crap in the EU (this must happen during 30 years, hundreds of novels and comics and several games). Have I ever said otherwise? All I said was that trying to clear those messups through retcon, etc. is still better than going the WH40k route of "everything is canon. Even the contradictions."
I'm not hating on Disney, even though the sequels are not entirely my stuff. It's just that I'll stay fan of the EU (and again, yes I know there is crap in it.).
Again: what I said was that Hidalgos opinion about how to treat contradictions in canon goes completely against the promoted policy of avoiding contradictions like the EU had. Which is sad as it is one of the things I like about the new canon.

 

Regarding KotOR era and little to no tech advancement.
Yep, I'm still annyoed that they dropped the style of the old Old Republic comics - which was much more archaic - in favour of something more people can relate to. I'm totally on your side that it's unfitting.
But: All in all if you consider the SW universe moving on a tech plateu (aka. they have reached the pinnacle of whats obtainable with their technology and ressources) it's not completely unrealistic. Our civilisation has been sitting around for 4000 years stabbing each other with metal blades and squabbeling between proto democracies and feudalism until something notably happened to change this. So our history is clearly out of mind if I can follow you ;)


End regarding the NJO: I know exactly as many people who like them as I know people who dislike them. It's just that the dislike crowd tends to scream a bit louder. But thats just opinion.

Please don't start with the legacy era... Here we can agree that it was bull.

I didn't mean to seem to go ballistic, as it were. But alright.

Thing is, there isn't really such a thing as a Technological Plateau. Technology continues to improve in, admittedly, smaller increments in some areas... But just look at what we've accomplished with computers in the last twenty years alone. People bemoan no hoverboards, but forget they have hand sized devices capable of connecting to satellites in orbit from inside dense buildings.

If we can do that so quickly, there is truly no reason that KOTOR had to stay the same in terms of technology. It would have been interesting to see Blasters be a new thing- and according to the newer iteration of Canon, that's not far off the mark. Orson Krennic's Blaster is "Old Fashioned". Three shots and he has to reload- and that's not me talking from Battlefront Experience (That's six shots anyway), that's from an interview. Why he would choose a weapon he has to reload every three shots, god knows why. It's silly.

But, that's just the thing. That means Blasters are honest to god pretty fresh technology. That's kind of exciting in and of itself.

On the Government side of things, that's likely never really gonna change. That amounts to human nature and little else.

But see, tech wise? Yeah, we've been using metal blades for around four thousand years, but we have guns as well. And all kinds of other crazy stuff. For all intents and purposes, Star Wars never got past the swords for no discernible reason.

Edited by Captain Lackwit

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Re: the pace of technological advancement (because I’m staying out of the scale debacle)

 

Terran technology has had a mostly gradual increase in complexity and advancement over several thousands of years with a few advancements at times radically changing civilization and warfare, like agriculture and metallurgy.  There’s even been times where some advancements were lost only to be rediscovered hundreds or thousands of years later.  It’s been only in the past 2 centuries that the rate of new discovery and invention has skyrocketed (literally) with the industrial revolution to the advent of electronics and the integrated circuit.  Now we have pocket sized computers that are millions of times more capable than any computers from 30 or even 20 years ago.  The modern age is an aberration of an otherwise slowly progressing, almost stagnant technological advancement.

now once space travel becomes safe, convenient, and widespread there is little areas to advance other than slowly refining what already exists.  The same would be true with weapons of war, with some technologies being abandoned or forgotten in times of relative peace and prosperity only to ‘rediscovered’ during conflict.  This ‘stasis’ of advancement could last thousands or even tens of thousands  of years before any new disruptive tech is introduced.

Obviously the EU portrayed lightsabers as having progressed from backpacks connected to hand grips to belts powering tethered laser swords to finally a completely self contained weapon that appearantly can lay dormant for decades without charging or repair and work perfectly, over the course of presumedly thousands of years.  

 

Whether NuCanon adopts this view of technological progress is still to be seen, with only about 50-60 years of Galactic history portrayed with only hints of what came 1000 years before.

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In the EU, the Star Wars galaxy had be on a technological plateau for thousands of years. 
The first mentioned battles refer to the Hyperspace wars, 25 thousand years before Episode IV.
That means that they were already having hypercapable ships all the way back then. 
Also, in the Star Wars universe there seems to be things that are possible, and only limited by rare resources (Cloaking technology based on some rare crystals that only existed in one planet, Death Star superlaser based on some rare crystals too), and things that are directly impossible.

For example, it doesn't seem to matter how far into the future their civilization goes, they don't get rid of physical bodies, having to eat, wars and crime, they don't get an AI that is indistinguishable from living beings, and a million other things that do happen in other fantastic or sci-fi settings like Blade Runner, Matrix, The Foundation series, Dune, and many more. There is no reason for that other than it being kind of an axiom of the Star Wars setting.

Of course, that needs to lead to a plateau of scientific knowledge. You can say that sciences in Star Wars are as complete as they can be, and they cannot progress further.
For example, medicine is solved out by bacta, but they don't seem to be able to grow back living limbs (even when they know cloning), or revive a mother that was just talking some minutes ago with her son, or even keep a heartbroken Padme from dying during birth for no reason other than sadness.
Engineering seems to be limited by resources and required properties granted by those resources. Those crystals, alloys and fuels exist in some places, and they cannot be replaced, replicated or synthesized. Once those resources are depleted, that branch of technology seems to become lost or exhausted.
Except for the ridiculous Suncrusher, that gladly is not canon anymore, it seems that the more destructive power a weapon must have, the bigger it needs to be, following the progression from pocket blasters to Starkiller Base. They don't seem to be able to miniaturize weapons or find more efficient versions of them. They have to just go bigger.

The Gungans, Wookies and Ewoks are some of the few "primitive" species we see in Star Wars. Of them, the Ewoks are truly a pre-technological one, while the other two seem to just have followed an alternate path on development that has taken them to a roughly similar outcome.
Wookie bowcasters seem to be as destructive, if not more, than blasters. And those energy balls thrown by the Gungans seem to be equivalent to personal weapons. Or at least they were more or less effective against the Trade Federation's tanks and droids, and have portable shields that not even the Rebels and the Imperials seem to use decades later.

Edited by Azrapse

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@Azrapse I don’t think Chewie used a true bowcaster, it seemed to be a high powered blaster that looked like a bowcaster.  We see the real deal in RotS.  

Re: the regrowing of limbs and cloning, I don’t think Clone tech is nearly as widespread as lifelike or droid-like prosthetics.  As far as Canon is concerned only the Kaminoans and possibly the FO had Clone tech, and Kamino is a very secretive place. Perhaps they can replace limbs but it might take 10 years to grow it before it’s the right size.  

 

Scientists working to find new discoveries seem to be exceedingly rare in SW and prone to getting shot by tyrannical regimes.

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14 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

@Azrapse I don’t think Chewie used a true bowcaster, it seemed to be a high powered blaster that looked like a bowcaster.  We see the real deal in RotS.  

That may just be improving special effects - Chewie's weapon is still called a bowcaster here:

 

http://www.starwars.com/databank/bowcaster

 

and in The Force Awakens, it seems to pack a great deal of kinetic punch, hurling targets hit by it backward.

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8 minutes ago, Ironlord said:

That may just be improving special effects - Chewie's weapon is still called a bowcaster here:

 

http://www.starwars.com/databank/bowcaster

 

and in The Force Awakens, it seems to pack a great deal of kinetic punch, hurling targets hit by it backward.

We only see the bowcaster in action twice in the OT, Chewie shooting the giant space slug while trying to hit the mynocks, and shooting a speeder bike and making it blow up.  Leia shot a speeder bike as well with her sporting Blaster and it was enough to knock it into another bike and make it asplode too.  So I dunno.  The energy bolts sure look the same as any other Blaster, but we don’t see any other gun sending people flying backwards.  

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1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

@Azrapse I don’t think Chewie used a true bowcaster, it seemed to be a high powered blaster that looked like a bowcaster.  We see the real deal in RotS.  

That's assuming there is only one true design and type of bowcasters. If Chewie's was from a different weapons smith and/or was a lighter variant, then the discrepancies could be explained. 

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15 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

That's assuming there is only one true design and type of bowcasters. If Chewie's was from a different weapons smith and/or was a lighter variant, then the discrepancies could be explained. 

Knowing Chewie he probably built it himself.

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Chewie did build it himself.

Thats an important part of the Wookiees ritual to become adult. After you build it you have to go down to the ground level and hunt.

 

Note that bowcasters can be very different. Some work like real crossbows. Some use electro magnets to accelerate the bolt (those spheres an the arms of Chewies bowcaster are the magnets). Some pull the string automatically other require Wookie scale muscle force. Some have an inbuild blaster as secondary weapon.

What they have in common is that they fire slugs (Solid, explosive, etc.). And some of these slugs create an energy field around themself to provide better penetration.

 

Yes I know thats all EU but it would be a shame if it gets dropped.

Edited by RogueLeader42

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2 hours ago, RogueLeader42 said:

Chemie did build it himself.

Thats an important part of the Wookiees ritual to become adult. After you build it you have to go down to the ground level and hunt.

 

Note that bowcasters can be very different. Some work like real crossbows. Some use electro magnets to accelerate the bolt (those spheres an the arms of Chewies bowcaster are the magnets). Some pull the string automatically other require Wookie scale muscle force. Some have an inbuild blaster as secondary weapon.

What they have in common is that they fire slugs (Solid, explosive, etc.). And some of these slugs create an energy field around themself to provide better penetration.

 

Yes I know thats all EU but it would be a shame if it gets dropped.

I mean this fits TFA quite well. Ridiculous physical impact? Probably a physical slug. Han can use it without issue and there is an energy field? Probably self-loading and energized, which makes sense as Chewie is rather small (presumably weak) for a Wookie (at least thats my impression from episode 3) and also well practiced with technology. A secondary blaster would still fit this and explain why the bowcaster isn't as rdiculous in the original movies. The ritualistic aspect would fit the movies, too. Bowcasters seem like really crazy weapons, but you never see them outside of wookie hands. Not in the FO, not the resistance, not even with Saw's partisans. Probably because building them is a bit of a wookie secret, like for example a ritual.

I think it is neat to have them a bit like wookie lightsabers.

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30 minutes ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

 Bowcasters seem like really crazy weapons, but you never see them outside of wookie hands. Not in the FO, not the resistance, not even with Saw's partisans. Probably because building them is a bit of a wookie secret, like for example a ritual.

I think it is neat to have them a bit like wookie lightsabers.

There are bowcaster-like weapons out there though - energy bows - the nightsisters had them, and Chirrut from Rogue One had a particularly powerful one which he shot TIEs down with.

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57 minutes ago, Ironlord said:

There are bowcaster-like weapons out there though - energy bows - the nightsisters had them, and Chirrut from Rogue One had a particularly powerful one which he shot TIEs down with.

True, those apprear to be a bit less sophisticated, though, all with no automatic reloading and a slow rate of fire (astonishingly so with Chirrut's weapon, though it may be more powerful).

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On 2017-09-19 at 1:30 PM, Ironlord said:

I think one of the reasons it was done oversized, was that EU story where the Mist Hunter was used as a lifeboat to rescue a large number of Rebels from the transport Bright Hope:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mist_Hunter

 

They managed to rescue 90 people:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bright_Hope/Legends

 

Perhaps the maker of the model, had read the story and decided to up-size the ship a bit? Even then, they'd have to be packed in like sardines.

Some might picture this:

f43547797b73fa18e0bd86968c978b1a--bounty

Then the model certainly would be too big.

But the G1A probably looks much more like this:

640?cb=20131010182956

(pic seems to be from Hidalgo's Essential Reader's Compendium), really spacious cockpit. Thus the FFG model looks right.

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