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Tvayumat

Deathcaller Disco

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Ran this list yesterday in a small local tournament. Four experienced players (one of whom just got back from the GenCon tourney with some sweet acrylic movement templates and rune tokens for placing) with some interesting lists, including the Daqan Oathsworn Doom Brigade and a Daqan Kari force with borrowed Deepwood Archers.

End of the day, I took first, though mostly through the tournament points from one big shutdown. Most of the other matches were super close in points, including the supposedly meta-defining Oathsworn list.

Ardus IxErebus x1 [37]
--Unique: Ardus Fury [1]
----------Total Unit Cost: 38

Reanimates x6 [35]
--Champion: Deathcaller [5]
--Heavy: Support Carrion Lancer [6]
--Training: Simultaneous Orders [2]
----------Total Unit Cost: 48

Reanimates x6 [35]
--Champion: Deathcaller [5]
--Heavy: Support Carrion Lancer [6]
--Training: Simultaneous Orders [2]
----------Total Unit Cost: 48

Reanimate Archers x2 [18]
--Equipment: Tempered Steel [3]
--Training: Combat Ingenuity [6]
----------Total Unit Cost: 27

Carrion Lancers x2 [27]
--Equipment: Master-Crafted Weapons [4]
--Training: Combat Ingenuity [6]
----------Total Unit Cost: 37

TOTAL 198 pts

I'm always looking for new angles to take with Waiqar, and I know this one has been batted around a bit, but I'm happy to say that the concept is very sound. On a good round (two blue runes) the Reanimates are able to lay some pretty heavy wounds into the popular high armor Oathsworn, but are still quite functional front line units to tie up big blocks for the Archers and Lancers to lay in raw damage on flanks.

Ardus hovers close to the worms and archers, borrowing their surge abilities, and lending an impressive amount of damage to their total as well.

Reanimates are strangely good at playing the range game, I find, with an initiative 7 shift + skill combo that allows them to wait for most of their opponents to move into range before tapping them for wounds, or alternatively surging forward before doing the same.

The Deepwood Archers were the biggest surprise of the day. With those two blue dice they roll accuracies far too regularly to depend on individual figure upgrades to carry a game. That game forced me to move forward to engage at a disadvantage since my own archers were far too comfortable out of range and behind some spikes.

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Nice work and interesting list!

Did you play against the double 4x1 Oathsworn or the super unit?  What was your toughest matchup?  

I've noticed the same with Accuracy results lately, it seems like their are a lot more blue dice than red in play right now, and my poor Ardus upgrade was shut down quickly twice yesterday :(

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1 hour ago, Tvayumat said:

Ran this list yesterday in a small local tournament. Four experienced players (one of whom just got back from the GenCon tourney with some sweet acrylic movement templates and rune tokens for placing) with some interesting lists, including the Daqan Oathsworn Doom Brigade and a Daqan Kari force with borrowed Deepwood Archers.

End of the day, I took first, though mostly through the tournament points from one big shutdown. Most of the other matches were super close in points, including the supposedly meta-defining Oathsworn list.

A little snipage..

The Deepwood Archers were the biggest surprise of the day. With those two blue dice they roll accuracies far too regularly to depend on individual figure upgrades to carry a game. That game forced me to move forward to engage at a disadvantage since my own archers were far too comfortable out of range and behind some spikes.

Wait until someone in your area starts playing elves for real ;) .  Deathcaller is toast in the first round that the elves get within range.  Their ability to roll precision and snipe out heroes is only matched by Kari with Fortuna's Dice. 

As far as the so called meta defining cavalry list, I just dont see it.  Once it starts losing trays its damage drops dramatically and slippery elves can just ignore the cavalry charges by not being where they;re expected to be.

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39 minutes ago, Thornoo1 said:

Wait until someone in your area starts playing elves for real ;) .  Deathcaller is toast in the first round that the elves get within range.  Their ability to roll precision and snipe out heroes is only matched by Kari with Fortuna's Dice. 

As far as the so called meta defining cavalry list, I just dont see it.  Once it starts losing trays its damage drops dramatically and slippery elves can just ignore the cavalry charges by not being where they;re expected to be.

They don't even need to play elves "for real" for this to be true. One unit of Deepwood archers sniped my Deathcallers and forced me into a closer game than I wanted to play. I lost that one by a Victory Tokens' worth of pts.

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Hawthone and double 6-tray oathsworn won the first big tournament, but by all reports there was a large variety of different lists on the day, so I'm not sure who's calling that list meta-defining.

As for @Tvayumat's list, I love the look of it. How much use did you get out of Tempered Steel on your archers? I'm curious how it fares without a dedicated means to ready it.

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9 minutes ago, Contrapulator said:

Hawthone and double 6-tray oathsworn won the first big tournament, but by all reports there was a large variety of different lists on the day, so I'm not sure who's calling that list meta-defining.

As for @Tvayumat's list, I love the look of it. How much use did you get out of Tempered Steel on your archers? I'm curious how it fares without a dedicated means to ready it.

Yeah, I put the phrase in quotes because it's been mentioned around a few times by some doomsayers and I've never bought into it. The Oathsworn block is powerful and easy to use, but not insurmountable by any stretch of the imagination.

Tempered Steel tends to see quite a bit of use when I run it even on the MSU of Reanimate Archers. As long as they are positioned well and with intent during deployment, they generally have time to bank 1-2 inspiration tokens, and 2-3 uses of Tempered Steel often is worth the low cost of the upgrade. With both that AND CI, the "blight battery" is a little more versatile if slightly less reliable.

This may change as Latari and Uthuk lists become more prevalent. Daqan almost always gives me more than enough time to bank Inspiration but those other armies bring threat across the table a lot faster.

 

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I agree with what you say about Tempered Steel. My first move with Reanimate Archers is always shift + rally, and most games I can do that the following round, too. It's quite effective.

Having two 6-tray units without Lingering Dead seems a bit scary. Do you miss that upgrade? I've played two games without it, and I have mixed feelings. Obviously Simultaneous Orders proved its worth in your hands, but I had begun to think that Lingering Dead was auto-include. Now, I'm not so sure.

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So i played a variation of his list at this event and took 3rd. I can tell you that deathcallers into reanimates is hilariously ineffective. Its great into Daqan, but had limited usage into Waiqar (atleast until Death Knights hit the table).

My take away was that deathcaller is good, but not enough to rely on solely. If i've got a few spare points its a great tool to have in my pocket.

 

Tempered Steel on T's archers was very helpful for him in our game, let him whittle down my reanimate blocks to help him secure his big scoring game. Its an upgrade that i wont be surprised to see more of in lists in the future.

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9 hours ago, oda204 said:

So i played a variation of his list at this event and took 3rd. I can tell you that deathcallers into reanimates is hilariously ineffective. Its great into Daqan, but had limited usage into Waiqar (atleast until Death Knights hit the table).

My take away was that deathcaller is good, but not enough to rely on solely. If i've got a few spare points its a great tool to have in my pocket.

 

Tempered Steel on T's archers was very helpful for him in our game, let him whittle down my reanimate blocks to help him secure his big scoring game. Its an upgrade that i wont be surprised to see more of in lists in the future.

Yeah, our two lists matched up wound up hinging on the fact that you went all in on Deathcallers, where I kept Archers, Lancers and Ardus as backup damage.

Deathcallers into Reanimates is, indeed, almost laughably ineffective most rounds. We found ourselves just leaving the support lancer blight token most of the time.

 

 

11 hours ago, Parakitor said:

I agree with what you say about Tempered Steel. My first move with Reanimate Archers is always shift + rally, and most games I can do that the following round, too. It's quite effective.

Having two 6-tray units without Lingering Dead seems a bit scary. Do you miss that upgrade? I've played two games without it, and I have mixed feelings. Obviously Simultaneous Orders proved its worth in your hands, but I had begun to think that Lingering Dead was auto-include. Now, I'm not so sure.


Every time I DON'T run Lingering Dead, I admit I feel a little nervous. It's just SO GOOD, unless my strategy hinges on another training upgrade or I absolutely need the points somewhere else, I don't see any reason not to toss it on.

In this case, though, I didn't miss it. The shift+skill combo saw me losing far fewer Reanimates than I normally would charging into melee range.

I admit, I like Lingering Dead so much that I actively look for excuses NOT to include it, because I want to prove it's not an auto-include, despite always wanting to take it.

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13 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:

How did those Lancers perform? Ten points of upgrades on such a small unit seems like a red flag, but I'd love to be wrong.

I found their performance to be inversely proportional to how stupidly I endangered them.

They can't run forward into the fray with only two trays. Their primary purpose is to lurk and hammer into the flank of any unit seeking to engage the Reanimates and disable the support lancers, and when I used them for that they performed beautifully, hitting for somewhere between 8-14 damage regularly, and often not spending enough time engaged to suffer heavy casualties.

Where they faltered was trying to close the ground to Kari and the Deepwood Archers after the archers had sniped my Deathcallers. That sucked.

EDIT: Also important to note that Ardus always hung close to the lancers specifically to double the use I was getting out of MCW + CI. Any time the lancers were flanking, they would be joined by Ardus. Their combined damage is staggering, they just can't take many hits in return.

Both of these units work well as board control, I find. Nobody wants to move a lone hero like Hawthorne, or a small unit of high armor low wound figures like Oathsworn someplace they might get ambushed by someone who turns surges into mortal strikes.

Edited by Tvayumat

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Oh wow I did not think of Ardus with those lancers working like that. I played a very similar list to this last night against a friend. The differences being

  • One lone lancer with no upgrades
  • Two units of archers with rank discipline and tempered steel
  • Ardus had no upgrades

I'm really torn now about which way is better, I'll have to try out your version next time.

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Fire rune is always hard to justify for me. 7 points for a chance to roll a damage (yes you get rerolls) for a chance to deal 0,2 or 4 damage. Id druther take tempered steel every time.

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4 minutes ago, Polda said:

Hmmm... I wonder if this list would work as well if the Archers had Rank Discipline and Fire Rune instead.

I have a difficult time taking Reanimate Archers without Combat Ingenuity. RD + FR would definitely specialize them into a damage dealer a bit more, but I like the way these archers can either blight a target OR choose to deal raw damage with their surges, just for versatility's sake.

That said, last game I definitely wished that I had taken Fire Rune on them after seeing how the Runes sat most of the game.

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