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L5R getting heat after SU&SD Review

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I think we are being overly sensitive, what we fail to realize is that recognizing and separating cultural/racial and national differences is in itself racist and offensive and redefining our terminology is the key to fighting racism.  Taking a piece of asian culture and making it our own (Everyones) in the form of a game is effectively celebrating it.  In fact, culturally speaking one of the greatest complements you can pay to a Japaneese person his to mimic their culture (in case anyone was wondering about that) .  There shouldn't be anyone  offended by hearing the shouts of "Banzai" at a social event, because the word has been redefined in modern language.  It's no longer associated with suicide and war, it's a word of popular culture claimed and disarmed, a battle fought and won against racism.  We see it used it in movies like the Karate kid for example,  its used in the naming of restaurants, books, waterslides etc.., it has become a socially accepted term dismantled and re-defined.  This is exactly how you fight racism and cultural segregation/separation.  By taking terrible words and their history, and wiping them away, putting the past behind us, having a laugh and realizing that its not world war II anymore and it has no power left with this generation.

This is also why some words like N word are very offensive, because its still used by racist people to offend and proclaim their racism.  They still own it, its still a slur, and the day we disarm that word and make it social acceptable and laughable, we can celebrate, because it will mean that we have defeated it.  

So if you're offended by the word "Banzai" being shouted at a game celebrating asian culture, don't be, recognize what it actually means to be able to shout it in a room and it having no power.  That is a victory.

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@BigKahuna   Well said brother! As someone who is part Asian i found what you said to be completely true. Growing up I did have to go through some racial slurs in grammar/high school but once the people saw that it didn't effect me the way they wanted to simply stopped doing it and stopped bothering me all together. 

Once you give someone the power to annoy or get to you they have everything and you have nothing. I'm not saying don't acknowledge that it is wrong (i don't think banzai is, just saying in general) but don't let it get to you.

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8 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

I think we are being overly sensitive, what we fail to realize is that recognizing and separating cultural/racial and national differences is in itself racist and offensive and redefining our terminology is the key to fighting racism.  Taking a piece of asian culture and making it our own (Everyones) in the form of a game is effectively celebrating it.  In fact, culturally speaking one of the greatest complements you can pay to a Japaneese person his to mimic their culture (in case anyone was wondering about that) .  There shouldn't be anyone  offended by hearing the shouts of "Banzai" at a social event, because the word has been redefined in modern language.  It's no longer associated with suicide and war, it's a word of popular culture claimed and disarmed, a battle fought and won against racism.  We see it used it in movies like the Karate kid for example,  its used in the naming of restaurants, books, waterslides etc.., it has become a socially accepted term dismantled and re-defined.  This is exactly how you fight racism and cultural segregation/separation.  By taking terrible words and their history, and wiping them away, putting the past behind us, having a laugh and realizing that its not world war II anymore and it has no power left with this generation.

This is also why some words like N word are very offensive, because its still used by racist people to offend and proclaim their racism.  They still own it, its still a slur, and the day we disarm that word and make it social acceptable and laughable, we can celebrate, because it will mean that we have defeated it.  

So if you're offended by the word "Banzai" being shouted at a game celebrating asian culture, don't be, recognize what it actually means to be able to shout it in a room and it having no power.  That is a victory.

You, sir, win the internet. Well said!

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9 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

I think we are being overly sensitive, what we fail to realize is that recognizing and separating cultural/racial and national differences is in itself racist and offensive and redefining our terminology is the key to fighting racism.  Taking a piece of asian culture and making it our own (Everyones) in the form of a game is effectively celebrating it.  In fact, culturally speaking one of the greatest complements you can pay to a Japaneese person his to mimic their culture (in case anyone was wondering about that) .  There shouldn't be anyone  offended by hearing the shouts of "Banzai" at a social event, because the word has been redefined in modern language.  It's no longer associated with suicide and war, it's a word of popular culture claimed and disarmed, a battle fought and won against racism.  We see it used it in movies like the Karate kid for example,  its used in the naming of restaurants, books, waterslides etc.., it has become a socially accepted term dismantled and re-defined.  This is exactly how you fight racism and cultural segregation/separation.  By taking terrible words and their history, and wiping them away, putting the past behind us, having a laugh and realizing that its not world war II anymore and it has no power left with this generation.

This is also why some words like N word are very offensive, because its still used by racist people to offend and proclaim their racism.  They still own it, its still a slur, and the day we disarm that word and make it social acceptable and laughable, we can celebrate, because it will mean that we have defeated it.  

So if you're offended by the word "Banzai" being shouted at a game celebrating asian culture, don't be, recognize what it actually means to be able to shout it in a room and it having no power.  That is a victory.

So what you are saying is....the racists won this battle? :D:P

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Sigh, people finding innocent stuff to get offended at again. This effin' generation... At least the L5R crowd are having fun with it. Like playing 40k back in the 90s. The ork player singing "'Ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go!" and the chaos dude going "Blood for the blood god!" without some SJW going "Oh my, that's offensive!"

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FFG seems to really try to force political correctness on L5R. It's like the fact that in the L5R RPG beta, they stopped using Eta and use instead Burakumin.

I guess we'll have to forego the Banzai in France as well... I'll see Saturday, I'll attend my first tourney for the LCG.

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I see two foolish things. yelling, and finding offense.

I feel terrible when I'm in a crowd of yelling people. This happened to me at a warmachine event once and I never returned to that store to play warmachine. I think they tried to carry the tradition of yelling Wahg from 40K events.

I feel bad if there are people who are still around that suffered a WWII infantry charge and associate Banzai with the WWII atrocities committed by the Japanese army. PTSD triggers are no laughing matter and neither are war crimes. I highly doubt the people who lived through that are the ones on the internet complaining about it.

The people complaining about it should keep their powder dry and focus on the real damaging problems of immigration and cross cultural relations. problems like this one are distractions, they are easy targets, you are not creating a substantive change by fighting this instead you are using your energy and ignoring real problems.

The people defending it are defending yelling in public, it's shameful and dishonorable! 

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I defend the call and response. I defend it because it was a way for a community to show their passion for a game that they enjoy. It was a cheer, to unite all languages that enjoy this game in the Americas, Europe and (some) parts of Asia in their love and excitement to play a game. If you didn't speak the language in the place where you were playing, in those moments you knew the words and were united with those that you stood and cheered with.

Now we are divided. Now the call and response is to be translated into the local language of the tournament. In Europe, there are many different languages spoken throughout the continent. If a German player attends a Kotei in France, the calls may be unfamiliar, the responses stilted.

If you found it 'cringey' (which is not an actual word by the way) I feel sorry for you. I am sorry that you couldn't feel the excitement in the room that I did when I participated in the call and response. I apologize that you feel that games are serious business, and that there is no place in it for cheering in a unified voice. I'm sorry that you're too grown up to understand what it means to have fun in that manner. I have seen the comparisons to some forced Wal-mart corporate cheer.  Nah, that is never what the call and response was about. It was more like what you see at soccer (football, sure) games. Everyone who is participated did so because they want to, not because their job depends on it or because they are forced to do it. If you didn't want to, you could have sat and shuffled your deck.

No one should be shamed for not wanting to participate in something, ever. Nor should anyone feel shame for wanting to participate in something that they enjoy or getting caught up in a moment of excitement and yelling as loud as they could to show it. I remember Banzai as something that I enjoyed, but that day seems to have passed. Now all that remains is the memory. (Unless us fans start performing the call and response, allowing FFG to keep its hands clean.)

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11 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

Yeah, I would avoid sporting events. And avoid playing on teams that are serious about what they do.

I do! 

however I do get loud playing dice games and I don't hold it against people for telling our table to pipe down. 

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I’m not an expert, but my ten minutes of googling revealed the word is used in multiple contexts (military, sporting events, being drunk apparently) in Japan. Also, the wording of the post doesn’t seem that FFG is changing it for their sake. 

Instead, they talk about “historical incidents.” So, I assume they are referring to WWII, and Allies who fought Japanese. Meaning, they are removing the chant for the sake of Allies and not Japanese. 

Most allied countries are on  pretty good terms with Japan now. In this circumstance, not saying “banzai” seems like saying “freedom fries” because you don’t like the French. This seems unnecessarily salty. (Unintentional pun!)

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57 minutes ago, Quizoid said:

I’m not an expert, but my ten minutes of googling revealed the word is used in multiple contexts (military, sporting events, being drunk apparently) in Japan. Also, the wording of the post doesn’t seem that FFG is changing it for their sake. 

Instead, they talk about “historical incidents.” So, I assume they are referring to WWII, and Allies who fought Japanese. Meaning, they are removing the chant for the sake of Allies and not Japanese. 

Most allied countries are on  pretty good terms with Japan now. In this circumstance, not saying “banzai” seems like saying “freedom fries” because you don’t like the French. This seems unnecessarily salty. (Unintentional pun!)

Not the American or European Allies, but mainly Korean and Chinese people would be those most offended by Banzai.  But then, any sort of samurai-based game would be offensive in their eyes anyway.

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I feel bad if there are people who are still around that suffered a WWII infantry charge and associate Banzai with the WWII atrocities committed by the Japanese army. PTSD triggers are no laughing matter and neither are war crimes

 

indeed....someone who was 20 in 1945 would be a very active gamer at 92 ish now

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39 minutes ago, Matrim said:

indeed....someone who was 20 in 1945 would be a very active gamer at 92 ish now

Plenty of older folks active at big conventions like Gen Con. And there's news highlights all the time about people in their 80s, 90s, even into their early 100s staying active, riding motorcycles and such. I wouldn't rule them out for gaming, that's just ageist. :P

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7 hours ago, TopHatGorilla said:

I wonder if these people have the same response to people shouting "hurrah!"?

Yes, we need to find something to yell for each LCG:

Arkham Horror: Ia! Ia! Cthulhu ftagn!

Game of Thrones: Ours is the fury! (or other house motto)

Lord of the rings: You! Shall not, PASS!

Android netrunner: Access denied!

Star wars: I'm your father! (or May the force be with you, I just find the other one funnier.)

Warhammer invasion and 40k Conquest: Blood for the blood god! (Yes, even if you don't play chaos, you should yell BFTBG.)

 

Edited by Robin Graves

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On 10/11/2017 at 4:41 AM, BigKahuna said:

I think we are being overly sensitive, what we fail to realize is that recognizing and separating cultural/racial and national differences is in itself racist and offensive and redefining our terminology is the key to fighting racism.  Taking a piece of asian culture and making it our own (Everyones) in the form of a game is effectively celebrating it.  In fact, culturally speaking one of the greatest complements you can pay to a Japaneese person his to mimic their culture (in case anyone was wondering about that) .  There shouldn't be anyone  offended by hearing the shouts of "Banzai" at a social event, because the word has been redefined in modern language.  It's no longer associated with suicide and war, it's a word of popular culture claimed and disarmed, a battle fought and won against racism.  We see it used it in movies like the Karate kid for example,  its used in the naming of restaurants, books, waterslides etc.., it has become a socially accepted term dismantled and re-defined.  This is exactly how you fight racism and cultural segregation/separation.  By taking terrible words and their history, and wiping them away, putting the past behind us, having a laugh and realizing that its not world war II anymore and it has no power left with this generation.

This is also why some words like N word are very offensive, because its still used by racist people to offend and proclaim their racism.  They still own it, its still a slur, and the day we disarm that word and make it social acceptable and laughable, we can celebrate, because it will mean that we have defeated it.  

So if you're offended by the word "Banzai" being shouted at a game celebrating asian culture, don't be, recognize what it actually means to be able to shout it in a room and it having no power.  That is a victory.

Bravo my friend. This post NAILS it!

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7 hours ago, Quizoid said:

I’m down. Might start doing this with my friends when we play... or at restaurants. Just whenever. 

Actually I've heard about a little girl yelling BFTBG at a restaurant. Mom and daughter went to get some ice cream, and she sais to her little girl "what do you say to the nice waitress?"

And the girl goes : "Blood for the blood god!"

Freaked out the poor waitress and mortified the mother. This is why you don't let warhammer players babysit. :)

 

Edited by Robin Graves

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On 11.10.2017 at 10:41 AM, BigKahuna said:

I think we are being overly sensitive, what we fail to realize is that recognizing and separating cultural/racial and national differences is in itself racist and offensive and redefining our terminology is the key to fighting racism.  Taking a piece of asian culture and making it our own (Everyones) in the form of a game is effectively celebrating it.  In fact, culturally speaking one of the greatest complements you can pay to a Japaneese person his to mimic their culture (in case anyone was wondering about that) .  There shouldn't be anyone  offended by hearing the shouts of "Banzai" at a social event, because the word has been redefined in modern language.  It's no longer associated with suicide and war, it's a word of popular culture claimed and disarmed, a battle fought and won against racism.  We see it used it in movies like the Karate kid for example,  its used in the naming of restaurants, books, waterslides etc.., it has become a socially accepted term dismantled and re-defined.  This is exactly how you fight racism and cultural segregation/separation.  By taking terrible words and their history, and wiping them away, putting the past behind us, having a laugh and realizing that its not world war II anymore and it has no power left with this generation.

This is also why some words like N word are very offensive, because its still used by racist people to offend and proclaim their racism.  They still own it, its still a slur, and the day we disarm that word and make it social acceptable and laughable, we can celebrate, because it will mean that we have defeated it.  

So if you're offended by the word "Banzai" being shouted at a game celebrating asian culture, don't be, recognize what it actually means to be able to shout it in a room and it having no power.  That is a victory.

Best post regarding this issue

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