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ElSuave

L5R getting heat after SU&SD Review

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As a neutral spectator I'm curious to see your opinions on this daily buzz.

 

Shut Up & Sit Down released a review for L5R which quickly got derailed over the subject concerning: "Chanting At Tournaments"

https://www.shutupandsitdown.com/review-legend-of-the-five-rings/

 

Here are some quick quotes coming from the comment sections:

Quote

You could say "well, don't go to an L5R tournament then", and I absolutely won't be, but the reality is that if you play any other FFG game you'll be sharing spaces with L5R events at Euros, Worlds, etc.

There are a few things that people are taking issue with here:

i) this isn't any chant. "Banzai" is not an innocent word, it has a historical context in World War II in particular that's associated with suicide attackers. There are players for whom this word is inextricably linked with the memory of the attempted genocide of their relatives, and they're going to be exposed to a room full of people chanting it at a card game event. I cannot fathom how FFG think this is acceptable.

Quote

NOW I find out you chant Banzai! before each tournament?

Excuse the ******* me what?

My country was conquered by the Japanese. My ethnic heritage - China - was conquered by the Japanese. (remember the mishmash above?) Neither of these occupations were pleasant! Have you heard of Nanking? When they came to Malaysia they rounded up my people and executed them without trial for fear of reprisals from the Chinese population.

I was really irritated by L5R. Today I'm so angry I might actually never buy an FFG product again.

It's lazy, insensitive bull and I am REALLY pissed off.

I don't think the heat is coming from people just doing the chant. It's about FFG making it as an official "tradition" / "rule" for Organized Play:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/l5r-lcg/hall-of-honor/

Quote

When a previously promoted Hatamoto attends a Kotei Series event, their greatness will be recognized by everyone in attendance!

  • Hatamotos are introduced by name and clan to all players at the start of each Kotei Series main event.
  • The Banzai chant at the start of each Kotei Series main event is lead by all Hatamotos who have come to prove their superiority!
  • A special Hatamoto gathering point is designated for these honored guests during the event.

 

Personally, as an upcoming L5R player I am indifferent over this issue. Is this an issue? Are people just trying to be offended for small things? Or is this an actual issue that FFG should address?

Edit: After reading reddit and facebook comments it sounds like there is a separate issue over the "chanting". Some people just find it awkward to do before a tournament. Other players of Asian descent said they do not feel offended but still find the chant to be awkward and they would not be sad if it disappeared from the Organized Play rules. Would any of you care if the chant rule went away?

Edited by ElSuave

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Coming from it as a Old5R viewpoint... it was always kind of neat as a traditional "good morning, welcome to the event, good luck!" kind of thing.

But I'd lose no sleep over it if it went away if it makes people uncomfortable. Mono no aware and all. Making people comfortable playing card games and growing the audience for the game is a vastly more important goal. 

Edited by PMAvers

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As someone who never played Old5R but was frequently playing in tournaments for other games at Gen Con, hearing the Utz! Banzai! was pretty awesome from across the hall. It was just something awesome from a game that people were ABSURDLY dedicated to. After Years of the AEG usage, i find it slightly odd that people are now taking issue with it. Finally as others on the reddit have pointed out, banzai has many different meanings aside from just the few that might be misconstrued as insensitive. 

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As irritating as the Banzai is, people who are actually offended by it seem overly sensitive.  Yes, some Japanese suicide troops shouted it, but that doesn't mean it had anything to do with suicide troops, specifically.  It was simply a battle cry, like "Remember the Alamo!", "Hooah!", or a rebel yell.

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Googled it; japanese, literally ‘ten thousand years (of life to you).’

 

it's something you say when greeting the emperor and is a warcry.... it was used for hundreds of years not just in WW2.  Be like getting mad at the phrase God Speed because the Cromwell was a jerk.

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I thought Banzai was still used in Japan to psych yourself up.  Which I think they can be pretty sensitive about such things (Though they were the oppressors, and I am not trying to gloss over the atrocities of WW2).  But my source is TV shows and anime.

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I agree 100% with this person and demand that we replace the BANZAI! with FU LENG! at all future events.

Also does anyone know if this guy was playing Banzai in his deck because if so........Hypocrite!

The things that people waste their time getting upset over just baffles me sometimes.  We have real problems in the world today, like the gap between the rich and poor growing larger, global warming, and whether katana are straight or curved.

Edited by Ishi Tonu

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26 minutes ago, twylite said:

As someone who never played Old5R but was frequently playing in tournaments for other games at Gen Con, hearing the Utz! Banzai! was pretty awesome from across the hall. It was just something awesome from a game that people were ABSURDLY dedicated to. After Years of the AEG usage, i find it slightly odd that people are now taking issue with it. Finally as others on the reddit have pointed out, banzai has many different meanings aside from just the few that might be misconstrued as insensitive. 

Welcome to new generation. Easily offended, loves to virtue signal, will criticize everything on the internet.

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I brought this up in discord, but I think its also a case of getting more internet exposure too than anything AEG ever had.

The CCG had a definite internet presence, and it was considered fairly caustic by a lot of people, but I feel like since FFG took over, due to the fact that it is FFG (Whose parent company is probably the second or third largest game publisher, at least according to my gut (I would be interested in these numbers!)), now there is an influx of new players, many of whom are younger and/or 'care' more.  So its also a case of far more exposure than the CCG ever got, as well as some possibly questionable PC-ness of the game.

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6 minutes ago, Shu2jack said:

Welcome to new generation. Easily offended, loves to virtue signal, will criticize everything on the internet.

What the **** is 'virtue signal'?  Are you making that up?

Looks up the phrase on the internet....

<_< You have got to be @#$%ing kidding me.  This is a thing?  Whatever happened to Real ethics? (Man, I sound old....)

(Edit: h.e.l.l. got starred out.  Really?)

Edited by Coyote Walks
PC BS

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Just now, Coyote Walks said:

What the **** is 'virtue signal'?  Are you making that up?

Looks up the phrase on the internet....

<_< You have got to be @#$%ing kidding me.  This is a thing?  Whatever happened to Real ethics? (Man, I sound old....)

To be fair, everyone has done it since the beginning of time. ****, the characters in the story do it when it comes to Bushido and making sure they (at the very least) don't lose face.

The problem I see is that people want things to change without having to actually to do any work. They want to receive in the name of "fairness" or "equality". Especially when you can vote in people who will do the work for you.

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2 minutes ago, Badilla said:

I just hope FFG doesn't give in to these people.

If they do, I might start a petition to "Retcon the Kaiu Wall, because walls are "problematic" on the current political climate." just to see if they'll do it.

While we're at it, I would just like to point out that Japanese officers in WW2 carried katana.  Since the Japanese also carried out kamikaze attacks, clearly katana are symbols of kamikaze, and we should remove all references to them.

Of course, we also can't replace them with European-style swords, because that might be reminiscent of the Crusades.  Instead, I propose that all clothing, armor, weaponry, architecture, etc. be replaced with simple, colored cubes of various sizes.  ...or is that offensive to spheres and pyramids?

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Sorry for the double-post, but my opinion changed slightly after reading some more about the subject (I'm a fast reader, I know ).

 

Some symbols were distorted so much by the world war II they cannot be used for their original meaning anymore. Examples like eugenism, the swastika and the aryan races are no longer attributed to their original, much more peaceful meanings and are linked to the WWII atrocities. 

 

The real problem is I don't know how Banzai is considered in China and it might have the same, distorted meaning for billions of people than the swastika (originally a buddhist symbol). Therefore it is hard to judge how a person of chinese descent might react to this. However, my counter argument would be that using these symbols as their non-violent, original, meaning might be a way to differentiate between the actual atrocities and the symbols that were appropriated while commiting them. 

 

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