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Azathoth_81

Exited about the courage and suppression mechanics

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Soooo last night, just before I went to bed, I watched this video

 

 

I've watched other videos like the Team Covenant demo before but they didn't explain the courage and suppression... this video explains it pretty well (at around 3 min) so this was new to me!

 

I feel like I have a better understanding of what the strategic choice might be in this game now...  shooting at an enemy gives it suppression token witch can limit them to one action... so that makes the order of things very important worth planning for.

 

I'm not too aware how some of the objectives work... anybody know if you need to use an action to pick up an objective token for exemple? This could be huge because if you are suppressed that could mean you get to the token but can't pick it this turn.... so you just stand there as a sitting duck (this is just in theory). In any case, it seems like a great mechanic so you plan your things.

 

It was also pointed out later in the video, the possibility to assign command order to units out of your range is worth more points than the force choke that can destroy a unit... I never really took the time to think about this but it make sense to think that position and the order of doing things and adding suppression (and possibly other status) might be more valuable to get the objective than simply killing a dude... I always knew it was an objective game but it feels more concrete to me now. I can almost see the shenanigans and fun times ahead now.

 

It will be fun to see what other commander cards and what other things they add to the game to play with those mechanics... Upgrades or units that boots courrage and fiddle with courage and suppression... tons of possibilities!

 

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What's said in the video is basically...

Each time a unit get shot at... you assign a suppression token to that unit. (note, i have no idea if this apply to melee combat).

 

If a unit have suppression tokens equal or greater than it's courage value ...that unit can only take one action per turn rather than 2

 

If the amount of suppression token is double the courage value... the unit flees.

At the end of turn you remove 1 suppression token from each unit.

 

...now, english is not my first language... so please don't throw any lightsabers at me if my spelling sucks.

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One thing to note is that following the logic of how they've organized the unit cards the courage value is per figure. 

So a stormtrooper unit with 5 figures would need 5 suppression tokens to be pinned and 10 to flee. However this will go down as units are killed. Which is the perfect combination of theme and mechanics. 

 

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From my understanding with the troopers having a courage value of 1 that is multiplied by the number of troops in that unit. So a unit of 7 stormtroopers would have a courage threshold of 7 to only be allowed one action and 14 to flee, but that would change as troops are defeated from a unit. 

I would assume that it would cost an action to pick up an objective as is the case with IA.

I also assume that there will be an objective type where each side collects as many objective tokens as they can to win as we've seen at the end of the TC demo. But what would make me even more excited is an objective based game where you're trying to control strategic points on the map and you gain victory points based on how many units you have within a certain range of that objective. 

Also a game type where one side has to retrieve a captured unit and try and free and flee with them and the other side has to move the prisoner and try and hold out until reinforcements arrive/end of rounds  

 

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1 hour ago, Revan2501 said:

One thing to note is that following the logic of how they've organized the unit cards the courage value is per figure. 

So a stormtrooper unit with 5 figures would need 5 suppression tokens to be pinned and 10 to flee. However this will go down as units are killed. Which is the perfect combination of theme and mechanics. 

 

I really like how this mechanic seems to work! Makes sense that as your unit is mowed down, you'd be more and more likely to flee (more or less). Very interesting!

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2 hours ago, Revan2501 said:

One thing to note is that following the logic of how they've organized the unit cards the courage value is per figure. 

So a stormtrooper unit with 5 figures would need 5 suppression tokens to be pinned and 10 to flee. However this will go down as units are killed. Which is the perfect combination of theme and mechanics. 

 

OH! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

I was watching it like...what do you mean, they have 1 courage? So you shoot them twice and they just run away?

This...this makes so much sense. 

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So, to summarize...

  • A unit receives 1 Suppression token after defending against a ranged attack, or through other in-game effects.
  • A unit's "Morale Threshold" is equal to the current number of models in the unit times the unit's morale value.
    • Stormtroopers have a Morale value of 1.  6 Stormtroopers would have a "Morale Threshold" of 6.  (6 Trooper * 1 Morale)
  • If a unit has Suppression tokens equal to its "Morale Threshold", it takes one 1 action per activation.
  • If a unit has Suppression tokens equal to twice its "Morale Threshold", it flees (and is presumably removed from play).
  • Remove 1 Suppression token during the End Phase.
  • Having Suppression tokens increases a unit's cover.
  • Units can choose to remove Suppression tokens.

What we don't know...

  • When do we check to see if a unit has too many Suppression tokens?
    • For losing an action, presumably at the start of a unit's activation.
    • For fleeing...  End Phase?  End of a unit's activation?
  • How do units choose to remove Suppression tokens?
    • As part of a Recover action?  How many tokens are removed?  Probably either 1 or all.  I could see both being a viable choice.  Runewars allows a Rally action to remove all Bane (bad) tokens.
  • How is Cover improved?  Ignore 1 hit for every Suppression token?  ...or ignore 1 hit if there are any number of Suppression tokens?
  • The two Vehicles we know about (AT-RT and 74-Z Speeder Bikes) don't have a Morale value.  Are they therefore immune to the Suppression mechanic?  Does Suppression instead interact with whatever the icon is that Vehicles have in place of Morale?

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18 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

So, to summarize...

  • If a unit has Suppression tokens equal to twice its "Morale Threshold", it flees (and is presumably removed from play).

What we don't know...

  • How do units choose to remove Suppression tokens?
    • As part of a Recover action?  How many tokens are removed?  Probably either 1 or all.  I could see both being a viable choice.  Runewars allows a Rally action to remove all Bane (bad) tokens.

I think fleeing could be a compulsory move to the nearest edge of the table, but it could be immediate removal from the game.

Luke's Command Card, Return of the Jedi, allows units in range to remove 1 Suppression token.

No idea on the other points, just some thoughts that occurred to me while reading your post.

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4 hours ago, Patteous said:

From my understanding with the troopers having a courage value of 1 that is multiplied by the number of troops in that unit.

Which is different than what they were saying in that video, because they mentioned a card Vader can use that causes 3 suppression and if that was used on turn 3, it would lock the target unit down for the rest of the game.  Which makes more sense that it's based on per model.

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The more I hear about this game it is sounding more and more like Bolt Action but with Unit Cards and different die to roll. I am going to love this game knowing it adds a bit of realism to it, a unit under heavy fire isn't going to get the time to plan anything since they are too busy being blastered to **** and back

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2 hours ago, VanorDM said:

Which is different than what they were saying in that video, because they mentioned a card Vader can use that causes 3 suppression and if that was used on turn 3, it would lock the target unit down for the rest of the game.  Which makes more sense that it's based on per model.

They were saying that essentially that unit would have suppression tokens on it until the end of the game. It doesn't necessarily mean that that unit would be pinned down permanently. It would only add 3 suppression tokens. If that happened during round 3 and assuming that unit doesn't have any suppression tokens on it already and wasn't attacked again before the end of the game they would end the game with one suppression token as you take one off at the end of every round. 

Edited by Patteous

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On 9/6/2017 at 11:33 AM, KrisWall said:

So, to summarize...

  • A unit receives 1 Suppression token after defending against a ranged attack, or through other in-game effects.
  • unconfirmed:A unit's "Morale Threshold" is equal to the current number of models in the unit times the unit's morale value.
    • Stormtroopers have a Morale value of 1.  6 Stormtroopers would have a "Morale Threshold" of 6.  (6 Trooper * 1 Morale)
  • If a unit has Suppression tokens equal to its "Morale Threshold", it takes one 1 action per activation.
  • If a unit has Suppression tokens equal to twice its "Morale Threshold", it flees (unconfirmed:and is presumably removed from play).
  • Remove 1 Suppression token during the End Phase.
  • Having Suppression tokens increases a unit's cover.
  • Units can choose to remove Suppression tokens.

What we don't know...

  • When do we check to see if a unit has too many Suppression tokens?
    • For losing an action, presumably at the start of a unit's activation.
    • For fleeing...  End Phase?  End of a unit's activation?
  • How do units choose to remove Suppression tokens?
    • As part of a Recover action?  How many tokens are removed?  Probably either 1 or all.  I could see both being a viable choice.  Runewars allows a Rally action to remove all Bane (bad) tokens.
  • How is Cover improved?  Ignore 1 hit for every Suppression token?  ...or ignore 1 hit if there are any number of Suppression tokens?
  • The two Vehicles we know about (AT-RT and 74-Z Speeder Bikes) don't have a Morale value.  Are they therefore immune to the Suppression mechanic?  Does Suppression instead interact with whatever the icon is that Vehicles have in place of Morale?

bold text mine.

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On 9/6/2017 at 8:31 AM, Azathoth_81 said:

Soooo last night, just before I went to bed, I watched this video

 

 

I've watched other videos like the Team Covenant demo before but they didn't explain the courage and suppression... this video explains it pretty well (at around 3 min) so this was new to me!

 

I feel like I have a better understanding of what the strategic choice might be in this game now...  shooting at an enemy gives it suppression token witch can limit them to one action... so that makes the order of things very important worth planning for.

 

I'm not too aware how some of the objectives work... anybody know if you need to use an action to pick up an objective token for exemple? This could be huge because if you are suppressed that could mean you get to the token but can't pick it this turn.... so you just stand there as a sitting duck (this is just in theory). In any case, it seems like a great mechanic so you plan your things.

 

It was also pointed out later in the video, the possibility to assign command order to units out of your range is worth more points than the force choke that can destroy a unit... I never really took the time to think about this but it make sense to think that position and the order of doing things and adding suppression (and possibly other status) might be more valuable to get the objective than simply killing a dude... I always knew it was an objective game but it feels more concrete to me now. I can almost see the shenanigans and fun times ahead now.

 

It will be fun to see what other commander cards and what other things they add to the game to play with those mechanics... Upgrades or units that boots courrage and fiddle with courage and suppression... tons of possibilities!

 

 

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Just not enough solid information to make a decision on this mechanic yet. If courage isn't multiplicative on the number of models in the unit, then just the act of shooting at them to make them pinned is too much power for causing no wounds. Definitely need more info. I figure that may be out by mid-Feb. 

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it has to be multiplicative, otherwise whomever shoots first would just be suppressing the other player right away. A second argument that it is based on the number of minis is that is how the health system works. It would also make sense logically that is a group of fighters is being shot at and weakened, they would hunker down (fewer actions) and finally run away. 

This game isnt about killing off your opponent, it is strategic control of the battleground. You want to force your opponent away from objectives, killing them or making them run away gets you closer to victory because they can't just sit on the objective indefinitely. 

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