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Rustedborg

Does the Scurrg warrant rule changes?

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Watching the last two weeks of casual and tournament X-wing games both locally and at Nationals made me start two question if the dominance of the Auzituck gunship, Scurrg bomber and bomblet generator requires FFG to change a few rules for X-wing.

First, the whole idea that players get half points for large base ships came from the fact that these ships have a lot of hit points (hull + shields) to chew through. Now, we've got multiple small base ships with more than 8 hit points. In my humble opinion, we need a rule change that says players earn half points for any small base ship with more than 8 hits points. So, if your small base ship has 9 or 10 hit points and your opponent gets at least half damage onto your ship then your opponent gets half points on that ship.

Second, Bombs (the ones that drop on activation) need to be subject to ion and stress control. In other words, you cannot drop a bomb on activation if your ship is stressed or if it has an ion token. I'm fine with bombs, even the bomblet generator, as long as a stressed or ioned ship cannot drop its bombs. Players need some way to "reign-in" opponents who use the bomblet generator. This also gives players another reason to bring stress control or ion control to the table.

I'm sure many people will say I'm just a cry-baby asking for those two rule changes, but if cloaking, deadeye, Palp, and Zuckuss deserved changes/nerfs then the rule changes I suggest are pretty tame coming from my perspective.

Do you think these rule changes would be good or bad for X-wing?

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Activation bombs are already subject to ions. The phrasing is "When you reveal your maneuver, you may drop..." When you're ionized you don't have a maneuver to reveal. 

 

EDIT: which is why a lot of people prescribe ions for dealing with Nym. 

Edited by Herowannabe

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2 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Activation bombs are already subject to ions. The phrasing is "When you reveal your maneuver, you may drop..." When you're ionized you don't have a maneuver to reveal. 

You can still drop em with Genius though (because it gives you an "After you execute a maneuver" trigger)

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1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

Maybe not the Scurrg, but Genius could do with a bit of a clarification - it shouldn't be possible to drop a bomb with Genius if ioned or if you've bumped.

There are way too frickin many bump-immune abilities.  Blocking used to be an effective strategy for low PS generics.  That's no longer accurate.

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2 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

There are way too frickin many bump-immune abilities.  Blocking used to be an effective strategy for low PS generics.  That's no longer accurate.

As far as I'm concerned, it should be "same rule for them all".  If x7 doesn't activate if you fly over a rock or when you bump, neither should K4 Security Droid and any other cards which do a similar thing.

(alternatively just roll back the nerf on x7 and Palp and reduce the size of thr FAQ by just having them operate exactly as they say on the card...)

Edited by FTS Gecko

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Me and MajorJuggler reached the same conclusion on half-points fixes-

It doesn't matter how much health a ship has, or how large it is when it gives up points- the half points rule was instituted to prevent the 63 point point-fortress that was Fat Han. It matters how many points the ship is worth.

Half points on any ship that costs 26 or more, as running away with more than a quarter of your list shouldn't be a thing.

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40 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Maybe not the Scurrg, but Genius could do with a bit of a clarification - it shouldn't be possible to drop a bomb with Genius if ioned or if you've bumped.

 

34 minutes ago, wurms said:

They just need to change all "After executing a maneuver" to be worded like TFA Falcon title or new x7 title, so you cannot do an "after execute maneuver" ability if you overlap an obstacle or ship. Crappy flying should never be a strategy.

 

34 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

As far as I'm concerned, it should be "same rule for them all".  If x7 doesn't activate if you fly over a rock or when you bump, neither should K4 Security Droid and any other cards which do a similar thing.

(alternatively just roll back the nerf on K4 and Palp and reduce the size of thr FAQ by just having them operate exactly as they say on the card...)

Pretty much.  They should just add an update in the errata that says anything which triggers "after executing a maneuver" only works if you didn't bump and didn't fly over a rock.  Wouldn't stop genius after an ion move, but would prevent scum nym especially from just slamming into a target ship and bombing them with impunity. 

23 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Me and MajorJuggler reached the same conclusion on half-points fixes-

It doesn't matter how much health a ship has, or how large it is when it gives up points- the half points rule was instituted to prevent the 63 point point-fortress that was Fat Han. It matters how many points the ship is worth.

Half points on any ship that costs 26 or more, as running away with more than a quarter of your list shouldn't be a thing.

Agreed.  The amount of health doesn't matter.  A 50 point corran is only 5 health, but he's absolutely just as much a point fortress as others.  Either do half points on everything, or as you said, half points on anything over a given point value.

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Especially since 2small ship lists are a thing now the half points needs to apply to everything over a certain limit. I agree 25/26 is a good cutoff. Nothing beyond 25pts is "filler" material, while most below that generally is whatever points you got left after kitting out the other ship(s)

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2 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

There are way too frickin many bump-immune abilities.  Blocking used to be an effective strategy for low PS generics.  That's no longer accurate.

This is what I thought this topic was going to be about, and it is actually one of my favorite ideas on the list of "how to fix the game without specific nerf/buffs".

 

Every ability that has a condition that must be met for its trigger (perform x color maneuver, not be stressed, etc.) should be able to be countered by blocking. It would help with a lot of wonky combos.

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2 hours ago, Rustedborg said:

Second, Bombs (the ones that drop on activation) need to be subject to ion and stress control. In other words, you cannot drop a bomb on activation if your ship is stressed or if it has an ion token. I'm fine with bombs, even the bomblet generator, as long as a stressed or ioned ship cannot drop its bombs. Players need some way to "reign-in" opponents who use the bomblet generator. This also gives players another reason to bring stress control or ion control to the table.

Action bombs are already controlled by Stress control. Can't drop an action bomb if you can't take an action because you are stressed out. I've had Deathfire shut down this way before.

Activation bombs are shut down by Ion control. As mentioned you can't drop a bomb if you don't reveal a dial, which Ion prevent. Genius allows you to get around that after the 1 forward, however this typically was not an issue before Nym came on immune to his own bombs as most ships would blow themselves up doing this too much.

The problem isn't bombs. The problem is Nym. Fix the problem, not everything around the problem.

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Eh, one of those threads again...

 

Half points for all ships. every type of cutoff is artificial and misses something important. Unless you are willing to look me in the eyes and say "Yes, you deserve half points for getting a B-Wing down to 4 hp, but you don't deserve them for getting Soontir down to 1 hp."

And lists such as TIE Swarms aren't really affected. oh no, you brought my Black Squadron Pilot down to 1 HP! All hope is lost over that 7 MOV!

 

I actually came up with what I think is a really elegant bomb fix yesterday: you cannot drop a bomb directly onto a ship. That solves most of the issues Aces had with bombs, but they remain a very relevant threat. Of course, that doesn't do much to Nym, but that guy needs a targeted nerf. I would expect making Havoc prevent equipping EPTs costing 1 point or less to be sufficient.

Edited by Elavion

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The Scurrg itself really isn't a problem. The problem is with the stuff it can take being too good.

Accuracy Corrector+Auto blaster turret is a completely OP combo. Auto blaster turret should be errata'd to read ''this attack cannot be modified except with the normal use of a focus token''

The only errata specifically for the Scurrg that I could see is changing Nyms pilot skill down to 7. Ps10 with genious and bombs is a little nuts. But it's not so insanely impossible to deal with.

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1 minute ago, Stoneface said:

It seems every time a new wave is released everyone gets in a knot about a powerful combo and the cries of "fix this OP build" or "this needs to be nerfed" resound in the forums. So which one will it be from Wave XII? You guys might as well get a head start on the complaints.

 

Let's see...I'm already seeing some claims about the Kimogila. The Phantom II is also getting a little bit of attention on that front, which is a little surprising. As for the gunboat...heck, it could be OP, but it has enough good will and the Imps are in poor enough of a position that it might not actually get razzed on until later.

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1.  I have never liked the current half points for half "hit points" rules.  Either it should cover everything or they should get rid of it.  It's also the POINTS a ship costs that matters a lot more than its hull+shield value.  Let's not forget that hull+shield is also ignoring Defense dice which may be variable but certainly should be part of the equation as could your token generating ability.

2.  No "reveal dial" stage because you are ionized then there should be no chance to use anything that would trigger on revealing your dial.  You have the droid that would allow you to delay that "reveal" bomb until AFTER you've performed the maneuvered that's great except my take is you're bomb has lost the window even if the droid would delay how the when it exactly drops.

 

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7 hours ago, Stoneface said:

It seems every time a new wave is released everyone gets in a knot about a powerful combo and the cries of "fix this OP build" or "this needs to be nerfed" resound in the forums. So which one will it be from Wave XII? You guys might as well get a head start on the complaints.

 

Missileboats. Advance Slam OS-1 Ordinance Loadout gunboats with any "dont spend the TL" missile gives it an HLC every other round.

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