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AngryAlbatross

Math Wingers and Meta Wingers, which is better?

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I have two ARC-170 builds that both appear to be good and I cannot decide which is better.

Braylen Stramm - 34
Finn, R2-D6, AO, PTL

or

Norra - 34
Nien Numb, R2 Astro, AO, PTL

My gut feeling is that Braylen is statistically more likely to get 5 hits, but Norra is going to be more maneuverable.

Discuss!

Edited by AngryAlbatross

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Both ships at range 1 with focus and target lock:

Braylen has a 58% chance of getting 5 hits (4.5 expected hits).

Norra has a 32% chance of getting 5 hits (4.17 expected hits).  But she has the advantage on defense.

What is the rest of the list?

Edited by bmf

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@bmf 
Chopper - 46
-FCS, Ion Cannon Turret, Hera, Inspiring Recruit, Ghost
Zeb - 20
-Autoblaster Turret

My thought was that Chop with Ion Cannon turret can counter Nym or Miranda pretty easily (can't bomb if your Ion'ed) so I need something to round out the rest of the list.  A hard hitting ARC seems to fit the bill quite nicely.
I'm open to other suggestions for a 34 point wingman.

Edited by AngryAlbatross

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The docked shuttle is only worth it with TLT for the most part. You're only gaining a single extra damage from it as opposed to the 2 from TLT. If you're in R1 then you're generally better off firing a 5 dice primary, and given that you have Hera you should be facing them, but you lose out entirely on R3 shots. Not to mention that multiple ion tokens don't do any good on small base ships. I don't really have a problem with the ion turret Ghost but I think those 20 points spent on the shuttle could be better used elsewhere.

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@Makaze I think your missing the point.  The Ion Turret is not there to do lots of damage, its there to stop Nym and Miranda from doing anything.  Ideally I would shoot the primary and then ion each turn, not ion twice.  Though I could Ion a big ship twice in a turn theoretically!

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ICT is actually really good in this meta.  Lots of 2 ship lists...lots of 1 agi ships.

Check out the #1 Swiss list in this 45 player store championship:

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3299

He went undefeated.  Keep in mind that skill is also a factor as he is the top player in the area, but this is probably the best showing for an ion cannon turret in store champs this season.

The list:

Sabine Wren + Crack Shot + Autoblaster Turret + Intelligence Agent + Phantom
"Chopper" + Fire-Control System + Ion Cannon Turret + Hera Syndulla + Ezra Bridger + Ghost + Tactical Jammer
Biggs Darklighter + R4-D6 + Integrated Astromech

Edited by bmf

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49 minutes ago, bmf said:

ICT is actually really good in this meta.  Lots of 2 ship lists...lots of 1 agi ships.

Check out the #1 Swiss list in this 45 player store championship:

http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/get_tourney_details?tourney_id=3299

He went undefeated.  Keep in mind that skill is also a factor as he is the top player in the area, but this is probably the best showing for an ion cannon turret in store champs this season.

The list:

Sabine Wren + Crack Shot + Autoblaster Turret + Intelligence Agent + Phantom
"Chopper" + Fire-Control System + Ion Cannon Turret + Hera Syndulla + Ezra Bridger + Ghost + Tactical Jammer
Biggs Darklighter + R4-D6 + Integrated Astromech

It appears I was not the only person thinking of the Ghost+ICT combo.  Great job!

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7 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

I have two ARC-170 builds that both appear to be good and I cannot decide which is better.

Braylen Stramm - 34
Finn, R2-D6, AO, PTL

or

Norra - 34
Nien Numb, R2 Astro, AO, PTL

My gut feeling is that Braylen is statistically more likely to get 5 hits, but Norra is going to be more maneuverable.

Discuss!

I would put Vectored Thrusters on Norra in lieu of R2 and Nien. The ARC has a lot of greens as is, and repositioning gives you a lot more options overall. 

There are other considerations too, though. Braylen may have a higher damage output, but he's also going to have a lot of trouble getting a target lock on anyone. Add to that Norra's durability, and I'd definitely give her the edge. At PS 7, she won't get alpha'd as easily (by things like Dash or Fairship); plus, she can spend her tokens defensively. Braylen is unlikely to get a TL round 1, and by the time he gets to shoot round 2, he's probably dead. 

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3 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

I would put Vectored Thrusters on Norra in lieu of R2 and Nien. The ARC has a lot of greens as is, and repositioning gives you a lot more options overall. 

There are other considerations too, though. Braylen may have a higher damage output, but he's also going to have a lot of trouble getting a target lock on anyone. Add to that Norra's durability, and I'd definitely give her the edge. At PS 7, she won't get alpha'd as easily (by things like Dash or Fairship); plus, she can spend her tokens defensively. Braylen is unlikely to get a TL round 1, and by the time he gets to shoot round 2, he's probably dead. 

That's what Fenn Rau is for.

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6 hours ago, bmf said:

ICT is actually really good in this meta.  Lots of 2 ship lists...lots of 1 agi ships.

 

Theoretically yes, but ICT is dependent of you keeping those 1 AGI ships (who also happen to have high PS and superior repositioning abilities) within range 2.

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1 minute ago, MrAndersson said:

 

Theoretically yes, but ICT is dependent of you keeping those 1 AGI ships (who also happen to have high PS and superior repositioning abilities) within range 2.

At least one of those (Scum Nym) really wants to be up close to use his pilot ability. And being ioned or stressed once you run into chopper is potentially not so good for him (both switch off AdvS). Miranda will usually spend one turn inside that bubble, which may be enough to ensure she stays there for a long time.

 

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1 minute ago, DamianR said:

At least one of those (Scum Nym) really wants to be up close to use his pilot ability. And being ioned or stressed once you run into chopper is potentially not so good for him (both switch off AdvS). Miranda will usually spend one turn inside that bubble, which may be enough to ensure she stays there for a long time.

 

 

Why would Nym need to use his pilot ability when he can just TLT the Ghost to death?

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28 minutes ago, MrAndersson said:

 

Why would Nym need to use his pilot ability when he can just TLT the Ghost to death?

Scum Nyms seem to have a preponderance of Autoblaster Turrets to save points for Dengar, and because they'll be up close trying to drop bombs with Genius anyway.  One can make an argument for TLT on him, but in a lot of metas, ABT is much more common.

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Each one is only going to get you so far, and that is mostly determined by you flying style/ability to adapt.

 

As i'm sure @ficklegreendice would say, the dice don't care about statistics!! Also statistics on dice mean nothing if you can't do the flying to make the most use of them.

 

Meta wing is much the same, The list comes with a strategy (and usually more than one depending on it's matchup!) If you can't execute the strategy well it doesn't mean a hoot where the list came from, it's going to get beaten, a lot.

 

Bottom line, fly both, see what works for you. Consider the matchup and what you both could have done better. Then stick with what feels right.

 

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37 minutes ago, MrAndersson said:

 

Why would Nym need to use his pilot ability when he can just TLT the Ghost to death?

because the ghost can wear an extra 3 shot while dishing the same (if not double if it has a docked shuttle) back?

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Braylen Stramm - 34
Finn, R2-D6, AO, PTL

Lower P.S. in a meta where we're generally seeing ps4 and higher, so this gets a bit of blocking potential. Finn is adding a die, but without a way to constantly reroll (IE PTL focus + TL) he's not super useful,  you are getting a higher damage output because you can ptl near every round, and you get some maneuvering benefits off the pilot ability.  Feel like you could take a different crew and save some points or add vectored thrusters to have a bit more flexibility with your ptl.  Consider that you're adding a blank and then having to reroll - when you could be stressing with tactician - which is limiting opponents maneuverability or forcing them to lose actions.  

or

Norra - 34
Nien Numb, R2 Astro, AO, PTL

Definitely less damage output, but firing before a lot of the p.s. 4-6 ships floating around in the meta,  still after a lot of the higher guys though.  You're losing only a little offensive power,  especially when you consider the effect of moving after several of the more nimble ships, and the final killshot on Braylen (Since he is more likely p.s. killed before he can fire)  You have the maneuverability to leverage it, but  R2 and Nien seems overkill, you're clearing pretty much your entire dial for PTL, which at higher p.s. is nice, but r2 astromech is giving you turns, barrel roll would be pretty useful here to increase maneuverability. For 1 point, I think you can do much more than Nien is really giving you. Bodhi Rook could be really useful in this build, allowing you to pre-set your target lock at a greater range through a friendly ship,  but then PTL has no other action to focus on.  Rey to bank focus, could be more useful here.  alternatively you can ditch r2, since the dual arcs mean that a bank can often get your other arc on target. Consider running bb-8 to make more use of moving your arcs about.


With the two stock choices you have - I'd fly Braylen, i'm pretty confident when being out p.s.ed and I'd rather have the higher damage output and chance of a more open dial via ability, than I'd like the guaranteed greens, with lower damage output.  I think you probably have better 34 point options if you're looking for the best combination of offense, defense and mobility within rebels.

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