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Lady Rebels

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26 minutes ago, Mantose262 said:

In this specific case, what is the downside to making sure there are some female models in the core box for the sake of inclusion? If females are included, who is getting hurt? Who loses out?

Misogynists? Those with such crippling shyness, anxiety and lack of manners when dealing with members of the opposite sex, that they have to cling to the notion that is a boys only club, rather than face their fear and have to talk to a female that might actually enjoy Star Wars, the game, and could possibly be better than them at said game/hobby? 

Just spitballing there.  

 

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1 hour ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Misogynists? Those with such crippling shyness, anxiety and lack of manners when dealing with members of the opposite sex, that they have to cling to the notion that is a boys only club, rather than face their fear and have to talk to a female that might actually enjoy Star Wars, the game, and could possibly be better than them at said game/hobby? 

Just spitballing there.  

 

Like who? Do you have names of these people who feel that way? Or is this just a generalization that people want to pull out of their butts to make it seem like an entire group of individuals are something they may or may not be? 

I'm sick of people constantly attributing mindsets, buying patterns, or what have you to groups of people based on their gender, race, nationality, or location.

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1 hour ago, Kubernes said:

Like who? Do you have names of these people who feel that way? Or is this just a generalization that people want to pull out of their butts to make it seem like an entire group of individuals are something they may or may not be? 

I'm sick of people constantly attributing mindsets, buying patterns, or what have you to groups of people based on their gender, race, nationality, or location.

I don't think he did that, though. He's not saying that all people from X or all those from gender Y are like that, he is responding to the question raised, very validly, about who loses from having a couple of female figures in the Rebel squads in the core set. If you have strong feelings about not including female figure she in the core set, let's hear them. If there is a reason why that would be a bad thing I would be genuinely curious.

As for the post you took exception to, essentially stating that people who display misogynistic attitudes are probably misogynists, is not a sweeping statement in the way you've labelled it.

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I haven't had a chance to look at the models real close. Where are facts to even support this 6 page debate? Is it because there are no boobs showing  or no skirts? I'm sure  this is nothing more than trolling. When Jabba has slaves someone will complain about them showing to much skin. How does any of this further the advancement of  this game?

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@Kubernes My statement was, mostly tongue in cheek.. mostly. Mantose262 asked who was hurt, or who loses out if female models were included.  My answer was, flippantly, stating that the only people who lose out for having a more diverse array of models are the ones that will have hissy fits for including any female models.  So @General Zodd is correct in his assessment of my post, so he earns my (Terrance) Stamp of approval.

@ozmodon, while I can't speak for amyone else, this is an issue mainly because some of us want a little more diversity than the predominant bearded dude brigade that is mostly depicted.  So far, all the pictures from GenCon have shown in closeup the beardy brigade only, with some far shots of Duros and more closeups of the AT-RT.  So, while I think most of us are not asking for some tarted up femtrooper, we do want some functionally clad female troopers without outrageous proportions or attire.   A Jyn Erso or Steela Garrerra inspired model.  

 

Also, FFG powers that be, you missed the mark again by NOT having Luke be in his awesome yellow award ceremony jacket.

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1 hour ago, General Zodd said:

I don't think he did that, though. He's not saying that all people from X or all those from gender Y are like that, he is responding to the question raised, very validly, about who loses from having a couple of female figures in the Rebel squads in the core set. If you have strong feelings about not including female figure she in the core set, let's hear them. If there is a reason why that would be a bad thing I would be genuinely curious.

As for the post you took exception to, essentially stating that people who display misogynistic attitudes are probably misogynists, is not a sweeping statement in the way you've labelled it.

No, my response is asking who is displaying these misogynistic attitudes and maybe that it's not a good idea to generally shuffle people into negative groups for the sake of eliminating people they don't like. His phrase is a sweeping statement to tie people who may not want female figures in the core set as having a particular label. 

I'm genuinely curious why you think that I would have strong feelings for or against about not including a female figure in the core set. It doesn't really help when you imply that I am for or against a particular aspect of the core set like the bolded sentence. If you didn't mean that, then I wouldn't phrase the sentence the way you did.

@That Blasted Samophlange: It's fine if you wanted it to be tongue-in-cheek, but it doesn't look that way with the words you used.

Edited by Kubernes

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I have no issues with the Rebel side having female soldiers, they are a resistance movement of sorts, you could call them terrorists but that is another debate entirely, what I do care about is FFG is getting the correct Imperial racism in place, this was written so because the Emperor didn't believe non-human races were of any value other than to be slaves to work in the many Imperial production or mining facilities across the Galaxy.

The Imperial army should be made up of Stormtroopers etc... that do not have any variation to the armour than what is seen in the movies, and btw I know females that have trooper costumes and they do not modify them in any way, in fact most female troopers tend to wear the Scout armour.

So in the box and for future updates 

Rebellion

  • Female and Male troopers 
  • Alien races 
  • Aged faces 
  • Bearded faces
  • Variety of uniforms

Imperial

  • Screen accurate Troopers 
  • Human Male / Female Officers 
  • Grand Admiral Thrawn as the only None Human characters

This would represent the Star Wars universe faithfully. 

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There is no reason that armor for females should differ in any noticable way. Boobs-Breastplates and such things are fantasy nonsense that makes no sense at all. A female can waer the same forms of armor as males do. If you look up historical portrayals of Jean'de Arc, they show here in the same armor as a male knight would have worn.

354px-Joan_of_Arc_on_horseback.png

 

Another thing to look at for the matter would be contemporary riot-police armor. There isn't really anny need or use for a different form of armor.

Edited by Hannes Solo

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9 hours ago, Kubernes said:

No, my response is asking who is displaying these misogynistic attitudes and maybe that it's not a good idea to generally shuffle people into negative groups for the sake of eliminating people they don't like. His phrase is a sweeping statement to tie people who may not want female figures in the core set as having a particular label. 

I'm genuinely curious why you think that I would have strong feelings for or against about not including a female figure in the core set. It doesn't really help when you imply that I am for or against a particular aspect of the core set like the bolded sentence. If you didn't mean that, then I wouldn't phrase the sentence the way you did.

@That Blasted Samophlange: It's fine if you wanted it to be tongue-in-cheek, but it doesn't look that way with the words you used.

The question was asking who loses from having female models in the core set. @That Blasted Samophlange's response was that only misogynists lose out. I have yet to hear anyone state a valid reason why there should be *no* female models. He wasn't attacking specific people, he was (flippantly, which is certainly how I read it) saying that anyone who seriously objected to it couldn't have a sound basis for that position. So, unless you have a decent reason for not wanting *any* female models in the core set, I don't see there's any reason to get offended on behalf of a theoretical group of people, holding a theoretical opinion which you don't share.

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2 hours ago, General Zodd said:

The question was asking who loses from having female models in the core set. @That Blasted Samophlange's response was that only misogynists lose out. I have yet to hear anyone state a valid reason why there should be *no* female models. He wasn't attacking specific people, he was (flippantly, which is certainly how I read it) saying that anyone who seriously objected to it couldn't have a sound basis for that position. So, unless you have a decent reason for not wanting *any* female models in the core set, I don't see there's any reason to get offended on behalf of a theoretical group of people, holding a theoretical opinion which you don't share.

My original point, which has led to this unfortunate back and forth, was that the ratio of males to females should be equal.

One guy mentioned that there is 1 duros and 1 female and that that was a great thing. I see that in itself as a sad reaction that says a lot in of itself.

The idea of a 'token female' in the unit is unfortunate. 

Another made a point that you can cut and chop and customise your own units if you want. 

Again, this undermines the point of having representation in the original game. The argument should ideally work that you can cut and chop to have all males, if you want, as opposed to gamers having to go out of their way to have decent representation in the game. 

In the same vain, we've established these units aren't fully customisable like you may find GW units. You don't have sprues. It makes customisation ever harder, more of a challenge, and again, works in favour of having representation in the first place, since these models aren't designed with customisation in mind. 

I don't think anyone is arguing for all female forces or all male forces. But in this chat that has become blurred. But the arguments being put forward for why this may be 'impracticle' are flawed.

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5 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:

There is no reason that armor for females should differ in any noticable way. Boobs-Breastplates and such things are fantasy nonsense that makes no sense at all. A female can waer the same forms of armor as males do. If you look up historical portrayals of Jean'de Arc, they show here in the same armor as a male knight would have worn.

354px-Joan_of_Arc_on_horseback.png

 

Another thing to look at for the matter would be contemporary riot-police armor. There isn't really anny need or use for a different form of armor.

Great photo!

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5 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:

There is no reason that armor for females should differ in any noticable way. Boobs-Breastplates and such things are fantasy nonsense that makes no sense at all. A female can waer the same forms of armor as males do. If you look up historical portrayals of Jean'de Arc, they show here in the same armor as a male knight would have worn.

354px-Joan_of_Arc_on_horseback.png

 

Another thing to look at for the matter would be contemporary riot-police armor. There isn't really anny need or use for a different form of armor.

You can definitely have female sculpts that are obviously female without resorting to boobplate, though (which I agree is fantasy nonsense). 

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Just now, Shadin said:

You can definitely have female sculpts that are obviously female without resorting to boobplate, though (which I agree is fantasy nonsense). 

How would a Stormtrooper (with helmet) be distinguishable as male or female? They would look just the same.

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13 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

How would a Stormtrooper (with helmet) be distinguishable as male or female? They would look just the same.

So far, I don't recall anyone complaining or commenting about Stormtroopers.  The anonymous armour does wonder for that.   People want the rebels, with their less facemask selves to have the diversity.  Though some awesome female Imperial officers would be cool.   

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On 04/09/2017 at 2:55 PM, Hannes Solo said:

How would a Stormtrooper (with helmet) be distinguishable as male or female? They would look just the same.

Star wars battlefront has that option and the difference is unnoticeable... The male is slightly more bulky and that is all there is to it.

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On 9/3/2017 at 5:12 PM, ozmodon said:

I haven't had a chance to look at the models real close. Where are facts to even support this 6 page debate?

There is in fact female rebel troopers.  Someone has a good picture of them on page 3.  It's the trooper with the rifle in the firing position.  It is from that picture clearly a woman, but not done in an outrageous style.  

On 9/3/2017 at 7:32 PM, VirMortalis said:

This would represent the Star Wars universe faithfully. 

No it wouldn't, not any longer.  It's been pretty well established in canon that there are female storm troopers, as well as officers and aliens aren't quite quite so poorly looked upon as the EU said.

The idea of HuMAN first is a EU thing, and was strictly speaking never truly canon, at least not G level canon.

If you want to reject the current canon, feel free... But in that case there's literally no point in debating it with you.

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1 hour ago, Mantose262 said:

Not sure that is a female and it appears the figure that is looking through the rifle scope has the same face as the figure with the Ion gun.(I think it is an Ion gun. I can't remember)

 

https://i.imgur.com/aY7oDQ8.png

https://i.imgur.com/jgJBM24.jpg

The one to the left of the duros, with the white arms and looking through the scope, is very likely female.   

The only problem is these pictures, at least on my phone, are anything but clear.   

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1 hour ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

The one to the left of the duros, with the white arms and looking through the scope, is very likely female.   

The only problem is these pictures, at least on my phone, are anything but clear.   

They are not perfect pictures but they are clear enough on my computer. 

If you open up the other pic, look at the Duros on the right side, on either side of it there are 2 units holding the Ion gun. Above that Duros is the possible female. Those 3 figures around the Duros look like they have the same face, to me.

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On 05/09/2017 at 8:19 PM, VanorDM said:

There is in fact female rebel troopers.  Someone has a good picture of them on page 3.  It's the trooper with the rifle in the firing position.  It is from that picture clearly a woman, but not done in an outrageous style.  

No it wouldn't, not any longer.  It's been pretty well established in canon that there are female storm troopers, as well as officers and aliens aren't quite quite so poorly looked upon as the EU said.

The idea of HuMAN first is a EU thing, and was strictly speaking never truly canon, at least not G level canon.

If you want to reject the current canon, feel free... But in that case there's literally no point in debating it with you.

Again I said in my post that female troopers could exist in the game, but the armour they wear would not be "modified" to show the breasts as for example ;

 

72dfd9a14f5d3a04e91912b7eb5303cb--female

 

I know quite a few women in the costume scene that are scout troopers, and I have met the actual 1st female stormtooper on set of Episode VII and she wore the exact suit of armour the guys did on set. So no we would not need specially adapted models to "represent" female troopers, they are rank and file grunts. Yes you could argue for Imperial Officers of both genders and that is acceptable also as stated with Sloan and some others in the Rebels series.

I know Gwendoline was Phasma but the person I refer to in Episode VII was  Samantha Alleyne (www.imdb.com/name/nm7186328/)

 

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2 minutes ago, VirMortalis said:

Again I said in my post that female troopers could exist in the game, but the armour they wear would not be "modified" to show the breasts as for example ;

Of course they can and likely do.  Because as you point out the armor wouldn't really look any different.  I'm also pretty sure I've never said otherwise...

There could be some really busy women who might need the armor modified so the breastplate allows more room, but that would be rare, and perhaps anyone like that wouldn't be allowed in that field.  I know the Army has height requirements both for just joining as well as given jobs.  But even if they had such a thing it would most likely be hard to notice.

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