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LagJanson

Are TIE Defender Ds a good fit in the meta?

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2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Depends on how you fly. Need to plan ahead on where you'll be turns ahead so you avoid that scenario. Sometimes you sacrifice a round of fire so you're in better position for later rounds.

That's the point. Ruthlessness is removing options from that potential plan, sometimes optimal ones. You're sacrificing that round fire not to set yourself up for a better shot next turn, you're sacrificing that round of fire because your EPT is turning an otherwise good shot into a poor one. There is literally no realistic situation in which having Ruthlessness vs 1 ship isn't flat out worse for you. So it's not just about flying better, it's about you being forced to fly worse because the card is giving you no other choice.

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Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, TIE/D, Ion Cannon, Twin Ion Engine MkII
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners

99 points.

Pick your priority target.  Give it ASTS and three Target Locks turn one.  This build sounds better in my head.

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4 minutes ago, Makaze said:

That's the point. Ruthlessness is removing options from that potential plan, sometimes optimal ones. You're sacrificing that round fire not to set yourself up for a better shot next turn, you're sacrificing that round of fire because your EPT is turning an otherwise good shot into a poor one. There is literally no realistic situation in which having Ruthlessness vs 1 ship isn't flat out worse for you. So it's not just about flying better, it's about you being forced to fly worse because the card is giving you no other choice.

Ah, I see your point there. I got you.

Still need a way to break the Biggs formation though. You aren't winning that one without a lot of firepower.

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I like running a dressed out TIE/D Vessery with an Inquisitor.  Nice bit of synergy with the target locking of the Inq title and Vessery's ability. But I'm constantly looking for a good wing mate.   At the moment I've got DoubleEdge with unguided rockets & TLT (because I always try and fly my new ships. :D  )

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53 minutes ago, CRCL said:

I like having 2 chances to deal the ion, but I can see the case for the fletchette. It give you a spare point for Mk2s on the TIE/Ds.

You also shut down activation bomb drops which is nice (besides via Genious).

It's not a perfect list, but it's fun enough.

If you drop to tactician instead of rebel captive you should be able to use the MK2s as well AND with the ion canons even a cow should be able to control range precise enough against your main target, which loses in the process its ability to do anything basically. No K4, no expertise, no actions, just straight-1s until they are dead. I like it. 

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21 minutes ago, Malabor said:

I like running a dressed out TIE/D Vessery with an Inquisitor.  Nice bit of synergy with the target locking of the Inq title and Vessery's ability. But I'm constantly looking for a good wing mate.   At the moment I've got DoubleEdge with unguided rockets & TLT (because I always try and fly my new ships. :D  )

Try Vessery / D with Quickdraw and Omega Leader. Even better synergy!

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Maarek Stele (TIE Defender) (35)
A Score to Settle (0)
Tractor Beam (1)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
TIE/D (0)

Sienar Specialist (17)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Lightweight Frame (2)

Imperial Trainee (17)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Imperial Trainee (17)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Adaptive Ailerons (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

Maarek will need to play defensively for this to work. Aggressor is just there for consistent damage, while the Strikers are fantastic blockers once you have practice with them. Maarek is there to tractor beam targets into a position to suffer severe damage against the other three ships, but ultimately is there to make it to the end game. If the other three ships gang up and take out ships that are a higher PS than Maarek, he can really dominate in a one-on-one fight.

There's a lot of "if's" in there though, so it would take a lot of practice and could fall apart easily if you're not careful.

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I have had limited success with the following list.

Rexler Brath — TIE Defender 37
Expertise 4
Tractor Beam 1
Cruise Missiles 3
Shield Upgrade 4
TIE/D 0
Ship Total: 49
   
Maarek Stele (TIE Defender) — TIE Defender 35
Expertise 4
Ion Cannon 3
Cruise Missiles 3
Shield Upgrade 4
TIE/D 0
Ship Total: 49

Expertise helps the TIE/D on a couple of levels. 1) It lets them half modify all of their shots. 2) They can save their focus for defense. The missiles are there to discourage your opponent from hitting the TIE/Ds head on because if they do they will be faced with 2 fully modified missiles (expertise+TL). Shield upgrade gives them that much more survivability and there is a 2 point bid for fighting Dash and/or Miranda.

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1 hour ago, Makaze said:

I feel like the /D version of him has always been that ever since release. He packs quite a punch but flies in a very predictable way and with only the single defensive focus drops fairly fast to concentrated fire.

TIE/D Vessery has always been considered less defensive than the TIE/x7 version, but in the past, "glass cannon" was reserved for low-hp ships that hit hard, like the TIE phantom, and sometimes Soontir Fel. With 3 agility, 3 hull, and 3 shields, TIE defenders were never referred to as "glass cannons." Now, with offense and defense spiraling wildly out of control, Vessery could be considered a glass cannon, depending on your point of view. I think that's overstating his squishiness, but then we're getting into semantics.

I'll go ahead and throw out my TIE defender squad, but it hasn't been tested against modern threats yet.

Maarek Stele (TIE/x7, Lone Wolf, TIE Mk. II)
2x Delta Sq. Pilot (TIE/D Tractor Beam, TIE Mk. II)

I think having a single, named TIE defender pilot with TIE/D is tough to work with because it gets singled out so quickly. By making the named pilot a more survivable TIE/x7, he's able to stick around a bit longer. The generics are important for control and damage output, but you have two of them, so if one of them is the first target, it's not that bad.

I've flown a version without the TIE Mk. II, and Maarek gets VI, in order for the Deltas to get Ion Cannons. That reduction in mobility is pretty substantial, so I think I need to get a cheaper ace in there so the Deltas still have TIE Mk. II

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If I remember MajorJuggler's assessment correctly, he gave Vessery glass cannon status due to the ratio of his offense to defense is comparable to other glass cannons. Its just his offensive potential is so crazy, that it makes his high health comparable to other glass cannons. 

Expertise Defenders are no joke, though. 

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2 hours ago, LagJanson said:

I was coming up to similar conclusions, to be honest. Throwing in Quickdraw with FCS and Omega Leader seems like a decent trio on paper. They all fly so differently though it's likely much harder on the table.

QD without LWF is...I dunno.

Think I'd take a Vader build over that.

IE.,

Colonel Vessery (42)
TIE Defender (35), Ion Cannon (3), Expertise (4), TIE/D (0)

“Omega Leader” (26)
TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2)

Darth Vader (32)
TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Intensity (2), Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

...the question being whether those 4 pts should be Expertise on Vessery, or EU on Vader.  I like Expertise on Vessery, as that gives him two fully modded shots with the title, but...Vader with Intensity and EU works really well...

(Nice thing about OL is that she pairs really well with Vessery, and is generally considered one of the most powerful Imperial ships and something your enemy does NOT want surviving to the end game...so gets priority targeting and can pull some heat off Vessery.  But the net-net is that she and Vader both put target locks on a target and tend to leave them there rather than use them, which Vessery needs since he shoots so late)

Edited by xanderf

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The TIE/D list I brought to Adepticon for the Hoth Open actually did quite well and was fun to play. Had I been better with my maneuvers in two of my game, I would have made it to day two (ended up 4-3). Predator really helps with the offensive dice mods, and I always saved my Focus for defense unless I was guaranteed to not get shot. Relxer and Maarek can really mess up those low agility, high hull large ships.

Rexler Brath (37)
 - Predator (3)
 - Ion Cannon (3)
 - Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
 - TIE/D) (0)

Maarek Stele (35)
 - Predator (3)
 - Ion Cannon (3)
 - Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
 - TIE/D (0)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 98

 

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1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

This topic needs 100% more @Biophysical

I'm no fan of half measures with TIE/Ds.  For me, you need Expertise, Predator, or A Score To Settle (with some reservations).  You want both attacks modified, and you want an action for defense or positioning.  

Consequently, I tend to also equip Hull Upgrade or Engine Upgrade to keep them alive longer.  You're getting into the mid-40s at this point, so that's rough.  It's especially rough when there's a combination of both high PS and high damage in the meta.  I'm pretty comfortable running against high damage low PS, or low damage high PS, but the current combo is prertty rough.  So far, the best result I've had with a TIE/D was what started as a joke list with fully kitted Rexler Brath and almost fully kitted Kylo Ren.  They both offered big offense, speed, and control, and the 12 hp of the Upsilon allowed it to tackle things the Defender couldn't.  I'm sitting at something like 8-0 with that squad, but I'm still not convinced its not a fluke.  I'd run 2 Expertise Ds, but I need something that can engage and take a hit before the D gets committed to the fight.

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5 hours ago, Parakitor said:

I've flown a version without the TIE Mk. II, and Maarek gets VI, in order for the Deltas to get Ion Cannons. That reduction in mobility is pretty substantial, so I think I need to get a cheaper ace in there so the Deltas still have TIE Mk. II

That was literally my Euros squad (I was going to take Vessery over Maarek, until I realised Vessery is on the other side of the Delta tile).  I hope you have better luck with it than I did!

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1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

That was literally my Euros squad (I was going to take Vessery over Maarek, until I realised Vessery is on the other side of the Delta tile).  I hope you have better luck with it than I did!

I'm 7-0 with the Tractor Beam version, but that's been pickup games on Vassal and at the FLGS. I have yet to bring it to a tournament.

Edit: 5-3 with ion. It did alright in the Vassal League, but I had some rough games, too.

Edited by Parakitor

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8 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, TIE/D, Ion Cannon, Twin Ion Engine MkII
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners

99 points.

Pick your priority target.  Give it ASTS and three Target Locks turn one.  This build sounds better in my head.

Don't try this with A-Wings, they will pop so fast ^_^ 

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9 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Colonel Vessery - A Score To Settle, TIE/D, Ion Cannon, Twin Ion Engine MkII
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners
Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Concussion Missile, Long Range Scanners

99 points.

Pick your priority target.  Give it ASTS and three Target Locks turn one.  This build sounds better in my head.

Aw man, I can just imagine an X wing's computer blaring like crazy about all the target locks and the astromech screaming bloody murder XD

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If I could add a counterpoint to this discussion. The TIE/D's offence is pretty good in the current low agility, high HP meta, particularly the ion cannon for controlling Miranda and/or Nym. The problem is it has completely the wrong defence for this meta of high PS ordnance spike damage. The 6HP helps, but those 3 agility dice are fickle by nature, even when you have a focus or two to back it up (I know from experience). A single ordnance volley from Dengar + Nym can easily remove a TIE/D from the board. Your dice don't even have to be particularly cold.

Also I've found stress can be a problem if you don't have the points and/or slots to bring Mk2 engines. 

Edited by CRCL

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I went 4-1 in a store championship right after wave 11 dropped with this:

Maarek: VI, Flechette Cannon, /D

Rexlar: Adaptability, Ion Cannon, /D

Scimitar: shuttle, fleet officer, ops spec

You can freely spend your focus on offense, knowing if you miss you get it back. It also generates enough focus that I pretty much always get to use Rexlar's ability, which in the current high-hull meta utterly destroys some ships. It's pretty no frills, but turning off expertise and getting the stress/ion combo off pretty easily is great. It does amazingly on the joust against just about everything but getting caught at range 2-3 by torp boats and cruise missiles. 

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We had a guy win our local store championship with Expertise Vessery, VI Backdraft and Juking Omega Leader. The only thing hurting D's IMO is that they are expensive. Maybe with the new missile/torp releases D's will get some play. Ryad with Cruises can be potent as she can 4-5K all day long. Marrek being paired up with a Harpoon carrier too. I like D's, you just have to have in your brain when your opponent will think you will K turn and dont do it. Predictability is the death of Defenders. 

Edited by Archangelspiv

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