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Nightmares Made Real (Wraiths announced)

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4 minutes ago, Click5 said:

It feels like I'm the only one who has actually put some trays on the table and started measuring things out though

To pull it off, all you have to do is jump over any part of the enemy unit, even the tiniest corner. I feel like it will be achievable. Especially since you have metered march to set the Wraith up in the perfect position on the previous turn.

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2 minutes ago, Click5 said:

When have I ever made a point to the contrary?  You a just talking to yourself at this point

That's in response to Tyvay

I'm not. I'm talking to you.

I understand your concern. The CONCEPT of jumping over units sound exciting, but once you start measuring distances, you realize how hard it is to do with big, square trays.

I agree, it's difficult.

You frustratedly remarked that it felt as if you were the only person who realized this.

I assure you, you are not, and pointing out that this unit has been playtested pretty clearly reinforces my point.

I'm not arguing with you.

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8 minutes ago, Contrapulator said:

To pull it off, all you have to do is jump over any part of the enemy unit, even the tiniest corner. I feel like it will be achievable. Especially since you have metered march to set the Wraith up in the perfect position on the previous turn.


This is thinking about it from the right angle (har har).

Don't try to jump over the thickness of an enemy unit, set yourself up for a diagonal jump. Oftentimes a flank from the rear is better than a flank from the side simply because if you're to the side enemy units will often be set up to counter you.

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22 minutes ago, Contrapulator said:

To pull it off, all you have to do is jump over any part of the enemy unit, even the tiniest corner. I feel like it will be achievable. Especially since you have metered march to set the Wraith up in the perfect position on the previous turn.

Not to mention you can also keep your Wraiths protected behind your own units and/or terrain since they can pass through those as well.

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I want to just put forward the opposite argument for using metered march to gain a flanking charge.  More to ensure we are not gaining an advantage where there is none as opposed to me disagreeing (cause I think it's a cool idea).

The Wraith rule reads: During a march or shift you may ignore any numbers of units or terrain. After you perform a march or a shift perform a reform.

So here's where I think the the issue lies.  "You MAY ignore any ...."  If you are choosing to ignore the unit you are crossing over then by extension you cannot collide with them.  You have triggered a state for the wraith unit where they will never collide, because you have chosen to ignore the unit you are traveling over.

With the metered march ploy you are in effect choosing to ignore the unit you are crossing over and then choosing to not ignore them when you get to the other side. But by triggering the wraith state you have chosen to ignore them.  You cannot have it both ways. So in effect you must move an infinitely small micro meter beyond the unit you crossed over. So you will never collide with this unit. We all know you can not use a reform to collide so that bit is off the table.

Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, Thornoo1 said:

So here's where I think the the issue lies.  "You MAY ignore any ...."  If you are choosing to ignore the unit you are crossing over then by extension you cannot collide with them.  You have triggered a state for the wraith unit where they will never collide, because you have chosen to ignore the unit you are traveling over.

Daqan's best lawyers would agree. 

Collisions occur while moving, and if you choose to ignore a unit while moving a collision (and therefore a charge) shouldn't be possible. 

But there doesn't appear to be a mechanism which would prevent you from being in base contact after the move, even if a collision shouldn't be possible. So I don't know. 

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2 hours ago, Thornoo1 said:

The Wraith rule reads: During a march or shift you may ignore any numbers of units or terrain. After you perform a march or a shift perform a reform.

So here's where I think the the issue lies.  "You MAY ignore any ...."  If you are choosing to ignore the unit you are crossing over then by extension you cannot collide with them.  You have triggered a state for the wraith unit where they will never collide, because you have chosen to ignore the unit you are traveling over.

With the metered march ploy you are in effect choosing to ignore the unit you are crossing over and then choosing to not ignore them when you get to the other side. But by triggering the wraith state you have chosen to ignore them.  You cannot have it both ways. So in effect you must move an infinitely small micro meter beyond the unit you crossed over. So you will never collide with this unit. We all know you can not use a reform to collide so that bit is off the table.

You are choosing to ignore them during the march. Collision from contact occurs after a march is completed. You don't continue to ignore them for the round, or even the activation.
 

Quote

RR-18 "Collision"

After a unit is (sic) performs a march or shift action, if it is touching an obstacle that it was not touching before performing that action, it has collided with that obstacle.

 

Quote

RR-83 "Timing"
83.8

An "after" event occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.


The move is consistent, 100% with RAW.

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