Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ryanabt

Just looking into Runewars

Recommended Posts

I come from a WHFB history, but have played numerous other games. I love, and miss, the big units of troops crashing into one another. However, I also played Wood Elves and LOVE maneuver and avoidance until just the right moment.

I can tell that movement is important, but is there really an opportunity to dance around your opponent?  Can anyone coming from a similar background speak to the similarities and differences between the two?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point in the game's life, I would say... not that often.  Shift maneuvers are generally higher initiative value, meaning someone could probably charge you before you can execute your maneuver.  Runewars is more about long term strategy via deployment and terrain placement, as well as timing the right maneuver, right now

The new Elf faction and some of the upgrade cards are changing this though.  Elves can shift more than once in an activation, modify shifts in to charges, shift after shooting.  The Wind Rune upgrade lets you shift around at a different initiative value then you could normally.  

I've pulled off and seen a few plays where you reform a unit early in a round to make yourself "skinny", avoiding your enemies charge.  

It might not quite be what you are looking for yet, but it is certainly building up towards it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was playing around w/ Wind Runes and proxied Daqan Crossbowmen against myself over the weekend, just to see if this was indeed possible.  You can definitely dodge cavalry charges with Wind Rune if the spacing is right.  Since the ranged units (in every faction) can dial in a special action on anything (white) -- they can pick low initiative actions to get out of the way if need be.  The Daqan / Waiqar cavalry can't wheel, so it's possible to sidestep out of their charge if the green magic has rolled well for you.  I would say w/o Wind Rune its probably not as easy.

You can always use 1x siege blockers out front as well though.  Lots of options.  The other caveat is the general initiative timing.  If you can get a charge or attack in first, you can sometimes negate their charge, or make their move suffer a panic token.  So even with non-ranged, there are decisions to make.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you like the Wood Elf style of controlling engagements until they're exactly in your favour, the you'll LOVE the Latari. Their Archers have a built-in ability to shift after shooting, ensuring they stay on the move. Their melee infantry is surprisingly slow in a straight line, but has excellent maneuverability, making them premiere defensive knife-fighters. Somewhat similarly, the Aymhelin Scions are control pieces that hand out banes (harmful status effects) to deny your opponent their full range of action.

The real experts though are the cav - Leonx Riders are fast, nimble, and can legit hit-and-run. They have the tools to choose their engagements, and it will be VERY difficult to catch them off guard. Even more impressive is Aliana of Summersong, the apex predator. She's a bit squishy as heroes go, but has SO MANY movement options at any given point. Where generally units have a fairly predictable set of options to approach any given scenario, she just has so many tools. On top of that, one of her upgrades makes her untargetable by ranged attacks until she makes a melee attack, so you can rely on her hunting down her prey. Looks like a ton of fun on the table.

In addition, several of their upgrades rely on proximity to terrain, so they're very much rewarded for controlling and dancing around terrain. I've only played a couple games against them, but shiftiness and vanishing in puffs of smoke is very much their identity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Runewars is first and foremost a maneuver game.  Moving better them your opponent will win you the game. It takes a while to really dig into the variable initiative system to get there though.

 

Haven't played or built my elves yet, but they appear to be what you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its a maneuver and an initiative bid kind of game.

The dials have different initiatives on each action. Some units do the same action at init3, others at init5. So you have this massive mental battle going on with setting your dial as you dont want to set a slow initiative if you're afraid he may do something faster to negate it (charge you and you werent prepared with a melee attack for instance).

Maneuvering is usually the big one that turns people off around my area for some reason. Even though for a rank-and-file system it actually makes sense, if you have ever marched in formation you'd know you cant turn a formation very well. Larger the blob, harder they are to turn.

Elves literally just came out, i hvnt faced them yet. On paper they seem to put the most emphasis on maneuvering right since they are fragile as all getout but they can elude you like no other if done right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 elves dance, and have a lot of opportunity do dance really well, especially once their expansions are out, once you can control the runes and add pin silly upgrades they are going to be very difficult to hit...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ryanabt said:

I come from a WHFB history, but have played numerous other games. I love, and miss, the big units of troops crashing into one another. However, I also played Wood Elves and LOVE maneuver and avoidance until just the right moment.

I can tell that movement is important, but is there really an opportunity to dance around your opponent?  Can anyone coming from a similar background speak to the similarities and differences between the two?

I played tons of WHFB and I always felt the movement especially for Elves didn't really capture the whole feel of their army. It basically just meant you could move an inch farther than other factions in most situations.

Now the Latari from Runewars... omg man... I literally juked around the undead melee hero Ardus with my Elf Champion. She used a double shift to straight up move past his charge arc.

...then my unit of Battlecats did a surprise charge (that Aliana the hero had been blocking before she shifted) and crashed into Ardus, killing him with the charge. 

It was amazing.

The units just feel right. The Elves are super maneuverable, but light and squishy. The Humans are armored and versatile, but not great at moving side to side, and the Undead are just cool with their ability to fatigue the enemy and overwhelm them with numbers.

Great game, vast improvement over WHFB in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wraithist said:

I played tons of WHFB and I always felt the movement especially for Elves didn't really capture the whole feel of their army. It basically just meant you could move an inch farther than other factions in most situations.

Now the Latari from Runewars... omg man... I literally juked around the undead melee hero Ardus with my Elf Champion. She used a double shift to straight up move past his charge arc.

...then my unit of Battlecats did a surprise charge (that Aliana the hero had been blocking before she shifted) and crashed into Ardus, killing him with the charge. 

It was amazing.

The units just feel right. The Elves are super maneuverable, but light and squishy. The Humans are armored and versatile, but not great at moving side to side, and the Undead are just cool with their ability to fatigue the enemy and overwhelm them with numbers.

Great game, vast improvement over WHFB in my opinion.

Thank for your thoughts. Your description of WE in WHFB doesn't fit my experience at all thought. I tended to play skirmish and mounted units almost exclusively thought, so I was VERY maneuverable, but VERY squishy.

I will keep watching and looking for video battle reports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's definitely some parallels between the way Latari play and the way that wood elves played in 6th and 7th edition and to some degree in 8th edition, but it's not exactly the same.

I guess I would describe it like this: In Runewars, all units, even individual characters, move the same way blocks of troops do in WHFB. Runewars also adds the element of timing and trying to out think your opponent with timing. Each unit seems to have conservative, aggressive, and neutral options open to it when you find yourself in a charge-or-be-charged situation. You could be conservative and take a defensive stance, but if your opponent does too, then you've wasted an opportunity. If you're too aggressive, your opponent may have planned a counter for that. Anyway if you're looking for that challenge to plan the movement phase carefully, and are interested in the added layer of accounting for timing, then Runewars is definitely the game for you.

In WHFB, skirmishers could move in whatever direction, 360 degrees. Latari elves can't do that. But imagine if a block of elves had a whole host of other options available to it, like it could move laterally at full speed and are able to dodge the arcs of would-be charges and choose when they get to charge themselves. It's more like that. Now, back to that timing piece. Latari have more options for careful timing of actions which adds the the feeling that they can "dance around". It's like a whole new awesome dimension that never even existed in WHFB.

And like WHFB Wood Elves, all that dodging comes at a cost. Your units are more expensive and for the most part don't hit as hard, nor are they as tough as your opponents. However, like Wood Elves, they also have some slightly tougher, slightly choppier allies in the form of cavalry and treemen (Amylion Scions). It looks like we are due for another wave of expansion announcements, so I would expect sometime in the next couple of weeks to get a teaser of an as-of-yet unknown Latari unit and my bet would be on another type of tree spirit like dryads or similar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Elliphino said:

There's definitely some parallels between the way Latari play and the way that wood elves played in 6th and 7th edition and to some degree in 8th edition, but it's not exactly the same.

I guess I would describe it like this: In Runewars, all units, even individual characters, move the same way blocks of troops do in WHFB. Runewars also adds the element of timing and trying to out think your opponent with timing. Each unit seems to have conservative, aggressive, and neutral options open to it when you find yourself in a charge-or-be-charged situation. You could be conservative and take a defensive stance, but if your opponent does too, then you've wasted an opportunity. If you're too aggressive, your opponent may have planned a counter for that. Anyway if you're looking for that challenge to plan the movement phase carefully, and are interested in the added layer of accounting for timing, then Runewars is definitely the game for you.

In WHFB, skirmishers could move in whatever direction, 360 degrees. Latari elves can't do that. But imagine if a block of elves had a whole host of other options available to it, like it could move laterally at full speed and are able to dodge the arcs of would-be charges and choose when they get to charge themselves. It's more like that. Now, back to that timing piece. Latari have more options for careful timing of actions which adds the the feeling that they can "dance around". It's like a whole new awesome dimension that never even existed in WHFB.

And like WHFB Wood Elves, all that dodging comes at a cost. Your units are more expensive and for the most part don't hit as hard, nor are they as tough as your opponents. However, like Wood Elves, they also have some slightly tougher, slightly choppier allies in the form of cavalry and treemen (Amylion Scions). It looks like we are due for another wave of expansion announcements, so I would expect sometime in the next couple of weeks to get a teaser of an as-of-yet unknown Latari unit and my bet would be on another type of tree spirit like dryads or similar.

Thanks for the detailed analysis. You helped me see how they can play the dancing game while not being skirmished, etc. I will keep my eye on them.

Second question. I am not a fan of dryads, treekin, treemen (WHFB) or Scions (RW). Is it possible to play without them and just use elves?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Wraithist said:

I played tons of WHFB and I always felt the movement especially for Elves didn't really capture the whole feel of their army. It basically just meant you could move an inch farther than other factions in most situations.

Now the Latari from Runewars... omg man... I literally juked around the undead melee hero Ardus with my Elf Champion. She used a double shift to straight up move past his charge arc.

...then my unit of Battlecats did a surprise charge (that Aliana the hero had been blocking before she shifted) and crashed into Ardus, killing him with the charge. 

It was amazing.

The units just feel right. The Elves are super maneuverable, but light and squishy. The Humans are armored and versatile, but not great at moving side to side, and the Undead are just cool with their ability to fatigue the enemy and overwhelm them with numbers.

Great game, vast improvement over WHFB in my opinion.

@ryanabt I was the person playing the Ardus and can attest to the shock I went through as I had a charge dialed in to attack Aliaana and she moves out of my way and I get charged by the battlecats that were back and to the right of her. He charged them with a turn charge and Ardus died... His archers had dropped him a little already.

I currently play Waiqar and I've literally gotten a 3x4 of reanimates and a 2x4 of archers all at the same time. You kill my units, they're coming back. I added probably 10+ trays of units...

Edited by Curlycross

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ryanabt said:

Thanks for the detailed analysis. You helped me see how they can play the dancing game while not being skirmished, etc. I will keep my eye on them.

Second question. I am not a fan of dryads, treekin, treemen (WHFB) or Scions (RW). Is it possible to play without them and just use elves?

At the moment there are too few units available to forgo using the Scions and still have a variety of options in your collection while being able to field an effective army at an economic price in real dollars (or Pounds, or Yen, or what have you.)

However there is at least one expansion pack announced beyond the "core" offerings that is pretty interesting Elven infantry. Like I said before, I think we're expecting yet another Latari expansion to be announced in the coming weeks. My money is on tree spirits, but I've been wrong before... a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, ryanabt said:

Thank for your thoughts. Your description of WE in WHFB doesn't fit my experience at all thought. I tended to play skirmish and mounted units almost exclusively thought, so I was VERY maneuverable, but VERY squishy.

I will keep watching and looking for video battle reports.

Ah! See I actually never played WE, just played High Elves and Dark Elves so that makes sense. I always wanted to try WE though and I'm really stoked that's the direction they took the Latari. The battlecats are so fun. I'm painting mine up now like irridescent black panthers :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ryanabt said:

Thanks for the detailed analysis. You helped me see how they can play the dancing game while not being skirmished, etc. I will keep my eye on them.

Second question. I am not a fan of dryads, treekin, treemen (WHFB) or Scions (RW). Is it possible to play without them and just use elves?

I get being more of an elf purist than liking tree spirits. These ones are pretty sick and seem more like they're imbued with elf magic than independent creatures on their own. My favorite so far has been to put one in the BACK row of a 6 tray Archer unit, and he gives them an additional shift if they're close to overgrown terrain.

More importantly he's in the back row, which is where damage is assigned. So he basically protects the archers via his 3 wounds and better armor, keeping your 3 Threat unit alive a lot longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Wraithist said:

I get being more of an elf purist than liking tree spirits. These ones are pretty sick and seem more like they're imbued with elf magic than independent creatures on their own. My favorite so far has been to put one in the BACK row of a 6 tray Archer unit, and he gives them an additional shift if they're close to overgrown terrain.

More importantly he's in the back row, which is where damage is assigned. So he basically protects the archers via his 3 wounds and better armor, keeping your 3 Threat unit alive a lot longer.

I hate to be the one to kill your buzz. but is there some kind of rule with scions or another card that allows you put the scion in the back row?

 

Because 38.3 says, "While a figure upgrade is equipped to a unit, the figure that corresponds to that upgrade must be slotted in that unit's front rank..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Elliphino said:

I hate to be the one to kill your buzz. but is there some kind of rule with scions or another card that allows you put the scion in the back row?

 

Because 38.3 says, "While a figure upgrade is equipped to a unit, the figure that corresponds to that upgrade must be slotted in that unit's front rank..."

Support Aymhelin Scion card reads, "You must deploy this figure to your back rank." Pretty sweet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Darthain, I think there's actually a real bonus to putting him in the back rank. For just a 4 point upgrade, you get to keep your archers firing and effective for much longer. To quote 

4 hours ago, Wraithist said:

More importantly he's in the back row, which is where damage is assigned. So he basically protects the archers via his 3 wounds and better armor, keeping your 3 Threat unit alive a lot longer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Elliphino said:

It's actually even better than that though, because it keeps a partial rank going a lot longer, meaning even more rounds of re-rolls.

Exactly!! It's basically adding an average of 2-5 extra hits to kill the unit, it can help them shift out of danger. Giving an additional shift on top of DA ability can make it worth it to take a damage based equipment instead of the wind rune too.

Plus if you get lucky with the stable runes, they have to get 6 damage to do two wounds to your back row, which isn't always possible for your smaller units, so a lot of that extra damage will fall off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Darthain said:

It actually just makes the figure easier to kill, as you don't need accuracy results.  Strictly speaking it is a debuff on a figure upgrade.

 Once they killed the 8 archers besides him in my back row, they had a real hard time trying to put more damage on that unit.

Edited by Wraithist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...