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tkundnobody

Some thoughts about the IP

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13 minutes ago, poke450 said:

X-Wing only OT and forward pretty much.

The Hound's Tooth, ARC-170,Cad Bane, Latts Razzi, Assaj Ventress. Aren't they all prequel/Clone Wars inspired content?

Edited by LordBlades

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I think we know why we're here... Star Wars... And it's very accessible, compelling narrative - Sith vs. Jedi; Republic vs. Trade Federation; Empire vs. Rebellion; New Order vs. Resistance, etc. - it boils down to goodies vs. baddies.

All we've seen is FFG's starter box and we got people complaining that as there won't be as many factions as 40K - a game that's been about since 1987 - it won't compete.

Rubbish. It's STAR WARS!

Legion is going to have a huge slice of the pie, even if it takes a decade for FFG to get around to the 8 factions I mentioned; or even just the huge range of options if they stick to EU around GCW, i.e. all the bounty hunters and scum you can probably bolt on in some way. (And Ewoks!)

Fear not. Legion will be huge.

Edited by Jedirev

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4 hours ago, The Bishop said:

We got some difference in colors with Rouge One (black and beige Stormtroopers), now you can choose out of three different colors!!!11

Haha, Rouge One. 

These pesky rebels and their brightly painted lipstick!

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Honestly, I think your entire premise is backwards.  I don't care if the IP fits the game type/engine/style/design.

For me, the question is, does the game type or genre work for the IP?  In other words, does the concept of a ground based miniatures war game with a larger scope than Imperial Assault excite me and/or sound like a good idea?  

YES.

I also think people may be focused too much on whether this will be a "40k killer."  Who cares?  Both games can easily co-exist.  There is almost no way that a single brand new game that relies on a licensing agreement that can always change in the future will "end" 40k.  Similarly, there is no way that 40k can bring in potential players who have no interest in that universe and instead want to play a Star Wars game.

I enjoy 40k, I have been playing for decades, and I am not about to go throw out my 3000 points of Thousand Sons.  I will eventually build up some Necrons as well.  That in no way prevents me from playing and hopefully enjoying the **** out of Legion.  

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5 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

Honestly, I think your entire premise is backwards.  I don't care if the IP fits the game type/engine/style/design.

For me, the question is, does the game type or genre work for the IP?  In other words, does the concept of a ground based miniatures war game with a larger scope than Imperial Assault excite me and/or sound like a good idea?  

YES.

I also think people may be focused too much on whether this will be a "40k killer."  Who cares?  Both games can easily co-exist.  There is almost no way that a single brand new game that relies on a licensing agreement that can always change in the future will "end" 40k.  Similarly, there is no way that 40k can bring in potential players who have no interest in that universe and instead want to play a Star Wars game.

I enjoy 40k, I have been playing for decades, and I am not about to go throw out my 3000 points of Thousand Sons.  I will eventually build up some Necrons as well.  That in no way prevents me from playing and hopefully enjoying the **** out of Legion.  

I liked your post, even though I play Space Wolves. 

And we all know, if 40k is gonna get killed, GW have a combination of corporate greed and shoddy rules writing to do that all by themselves

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2 minutes ago, Jedirev said:

I liked your post, even though I play Space Wolves. 

And we all know, if 40k is gonna get killed, GW have a combination of corporate greed and shoddy rules writing to do that all by themselves

And I liked yours, even though you play an army of drunk, book burning savages.

 

See, that's something you can get in 40k with 30 years of fluff and universe development focused on a single game.  Trash talking in Star Wars games always feels a little more simplistic.  Both universes are awesome, and they each have their own unique place in the genre.

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7 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

And I liked yours, even though you play an army of drunk, book burning savages.

 

See, that's something you can get in 40k with 30 years of fluff and universe development focused on a single game.  Trash talking in Star Wars games always feels a little more simplistic.  Both universes are awesome, and they each have their own unique place in the genre.

Like when the Emps told Russ to, "Wipe them out, all of them."

?

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Honestly if this game is gonna have any weakness model wise it's going to be duplicate sculpts and questionable plastic detailing. If you get two core sets to start that means you have 4 stormtrooper squads that all look the same. If they come out with a stormtrooper booster with bonus cards i'd hope they would have variant sculpts. Like a kneeling trooper with a blaster/heavy weapon, and the missile trooper standing up instead. 

The minimal amount of factions might actually be a good thing and be refreshing. I know a lot of people in 40k who buy the new flavor of the month and have started half a dozen or more armies and can't get around to finishing any of them.

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3 hours ago, The Bishop said:

I'm not a native english speaker and my autocorrection (t9) don't now Rogue but rouge. But I think it's my fault and I'm so sorry to mess up the day of all of your open-minded people in this community.

Relax. I for one am always grateful if someone bothers to correct my English.

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21 hours ago, Kappa Smith said:

Unfortunatly only humans fight in the ranks of the empire, they have a strict no alien policy unless its in the form of merceneries or bounty hunters. On the complete oposite side of the spectrum it seems that the rebel alliance is happy to have anyone, even criminals.

 

I would be keen to see Vader bring his Nogrhi death commandos to see some Imperial alien action.

Since the Rebel Alliance is composed entirely of criminals, those rebelling under Imperial law, I think they would be happy to have criminals in their ranks - or else there would be no Rebellion.

 

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This has been a big hang-up for me in regards to Legion.  I have been stuck on the idea that there is a need for multiple factions - with each one having a combat focus (long-range shooty armies, rush-into-melee, or balanced-range armies that fair well enough in either case). 

Then, I compared it to X-Wing.  Each faction has a wide range of lists that play very differently.  It occurred to me: I don't need multiple factions to get the same depth.  What if I could build a rebel army entirely out of Wookie marauders, who are itching to pull some stormtrooper arms out of their sockets?  Trandoshans could serve the same purpose for the Empire.  Add in some mercenary units with special abilities, and this game could have just as many interesting combat angles as other war games.

I am not sold, yet, but I will be keeping an eye on it.

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10 minutes ago, Farsox said:

It occurred to me: I don't need multiple factions to get the same depth

Yeah the idea that you need a Faction to have that type of focus for a list is really only because that's how other games have done it.

There is no need for more than two factions in Legion and IMO no room for more than 3.  Because anything you come up with can fit into the Dark Side, Light side or Other categories.  

You don't need an Old Republic or New Republic or First Order faction, you can simply stick them in the Light or Dark side factions.  If you wanted to keep them separated, so you don't have Stormtroopers mixed in with First Order troopers, or Clone Troopers mixed in with Rebel troopers, you can use the system that's in X-Wing with sub factions... Then you could limit list building accordingly.  Although that then sort of becomes a matter of semantics...

But I don't think you'll see a Wookie Faction even if you could build a whole list of nothing but Wookies.

Again, you don't need a faction to have a shooty vs melee type lists, you only need to have those kinds of units in the game.  Then again it's not like you can't make a shooty Ork army, or a melee based Tau list... It's just those factions don't work well in those rolls.

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I don't think FFG will hold back with the hobby craft element of this game.

The core set has simple sculpts, plug in figures. Simple to assemble and no variation involved. That's cause it's a core set, they've always been like that, since the whole point is for it to be a starting point for someone to get into the game from scratch.

They've 'simplified' the gaming element of it to make it faster and more approachable (although I consider it to be a good level of tabletop rules as opposed to 40k which I would consider over complicated). But I don't think they're gonna do the same with the miniatures themselves.

Half the appeal is being able to customise and craft each model to look how you want, so i reckon the expansions will be more traditional 'assemble every limb how you want' style figures. I think if they dumbed down the actual create + paint element of this style of game they'd isolate both those who are already fans, and newbys who will quickly get bored of painting the same sculpt over and over and over just to get the unit requirements to play.

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Not even close to being an issue.

Given the plethora of organizations and species throughout from all the films, books and games the only thing that would be an issue is if Lucasfilm didn't approve of them or laziness which I just don't see happening here.

So much to do.

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On 8/28/2017 at 10:16 AM, tkundnobody said:

I played 40K for a long time and read a lot lore. Sure you can easily scrap it down. But it's wrong. If you want to get main factions in 40K it would more look like:

  • Imperial (Imperial, all Space Marine Orders, Adeptus Mechanus)
  • Chaos (Demons and Space Marines)
  • Eldar (Eldar and Dark Eldar)
  • Tau
  • Orcs
  • Necrons
  • Tyranids

The last 5 are Xenos which just mean, they are aliens for the humans. They aren't allied or even similar. 

 

And GW is a totally different company, operating a total different business model, over a totally different time frame.

GW has been cranking out 40k for decades, when they started many of those factions didn't exist. Today GW is a model making company, it owns the IP and uses the game system to help sell the models, but the current GW view is the average customer is there to buy models, and may not even play ever. This is why you see such an emphasis on super cool model quality (to promote the line) customization (to encourage you to buy more models to hack apart, not to mention tools and supplies) and lots and lots of army and faction options (Gotta catch em all!) And let's be honest, the Warhammer and 40k lines aren't that well known at the end of the day. At least not when you talk universally. 

By comparison Legion is just starting. FFG is a game company, not a model company. And the license is leased, and known by pretty much everyone world wide. 

Technically you only need two anyway, the rest are usually just variations on play style. But as 40k illustrates to its own detriment, all a new faction is is often some special rules, and a new model line.

So like a rebel  Saw Guerrea dirtbag guerrilla Army can easily run quite different from Hera's Chopper Base Rebels Army, and even fight against each other with little need for elaboration.

And never ever underestimate the power of the Star Wars IP. 40k is known among us nerds, but there's still plenty of people that never heard of it, or think it's the tabletop version of dawn of war. By comparison there's plenty of people that will cut thier teeth on wargaming with Legion just because Star Wars. Not because of game play, or faction count, or a robust tournament structure, but just and oly because they love all things Star Wars, and Legion is one of them.

Edited by Ghostofman

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Thanks for your thoughts. Seems that 2 factions could work. I'm just used to have multifaction :D I hope most will paint their models, so we have a great Star Wars feeling on our tables. If both factions have 3-4 types of different lists which can compete each other it could be very interesting.

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On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 5:44 PM, Extropia said:

...... but it is a solid fact that no FFG Star Wars game with miniatures has released ANYTHING that appeared only in prequels/Clone Wars.

..................

(For the purposes of this post by "prequel" I mean episodes I-III, not stuff like Rogue One).

Actually this is incorrect. Imperial Assault has the Nexus (Attack of the Clones), Darth Maul (Phantom Menace) and Ahsoka Tano (Clone Wars)

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1 hour ago, Extropia said:

Maul and Ahsokha are in Rebels, Nexu is in Dark Disciple (new canon novel), 2 Aftermath novels and one of the "Adventures in Wildspace" books.

so nope :)

 

Rebels covers both Prequel/Clone Wars era up into Civil War era.

Given that Darth Maul dies in Rebels killed by Kenobi prior to the start of the original films timeline I don't see how you can say he's not a prequel character.  

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I didn't say he wasn't. I said nothing has appeared in only the Prequels or Clone Wars era, which is true.

Rebels does not cover the prequel or clone wars era (it starts after both). In fact Rebels starts closer to A new Hope than Clone Wars.

In fairness though I should have clarified that I meant specifically only Episodes 1-3 and Clone Wars....I thought I was clear enough it it seems not.

The point remains that absolutely nothing has had a model in an FFG miniatures game until it appears in something other than the prequel trilogy or Clone Wars. No exceptions that I am aware of.

Edited by Extropia

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4 hours ago, stet2 said:

Actually this is incorrect. Imperial Assault has the Nexus (Attack of the Clones), Darth Maul (Phantom Menace) and Ahsoka Tano (Clone Wars)

You forgot stuff in X-Wing like Asajj Ventress and Cad Bane

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Neither of them have miniatures showing them, but fair points. However;

Cad Bane appears in new canon comics, in Rebels (name only though).

Ventress is actually a good one though. Only her name appears...no art and her ship is not one she used during the times she actually appeared on screen, but this one I kind of have to concede, in a very indirect way. She does appear in a novel from after Clone Wars, but it is set there. You get a point for the closest, though I'm not sure it entirely qualifies as there's no miniature or art of her or anything she flew in actual appearances. But definitely the only winner so far :)

Fun game though :D

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On 8/28/2017 at 10:10 AM, Kardek said:

I'm new to 40k (just started playing a couple of months ago when 8th ed came out)  but I think 40k and SW are more similar than you think. 40k has only 3 main factions (Imperium, Chaos, & Xenos) just like SW (Imperials, Rebels, Mercs/Scum).

The Imperium consists of a bunch of different armies that worship the Emperor of Man and fight for mankind and the Imperials are similar and they are lead by an Emperor and fight for rule and order.

Chaos have armies made up of traitors of the Imperium (along with demons and cultists) while the Rebels consists of traitors to the Imperials (along with force-sensitives and fed-up citizens of various planets)

Xenos are kind of neutral (depending on the species) and will against both Imperium and Chaos.  Scum - they will fight for whoever has the $$$.

 

I didn't just start with 40k, I've been playing sense it was Rogue One. I think this has the potential to be a great game. 40k has had many chances to be great and has done pretty well. There big problem is that they make models, great models. They always fall back to that when they screw up the rules. They pump out so many different rules that they can't keep them straight. When pinned down about it GW says, use what ever rules you like. Then when sales start to drop they pop out new rules.  FFG  tends to care about the gamers  because most of them are gamers. 

Edited by ozmodon

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