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Celez

Gunner no longer popular?

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Gunner used to be a pretty popular upgrade as recently as a couple waves ago, usually on large/expensive ships to guarantee you push damage through even with fewer ships.

I rarely see it used anymore though, what happened?

Edited by Celez

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2 hours ago, MalanTai said:

Evady aces died from bombs, so gunner is not really needed anymore. 

I see, that makes sense. I can also see why imps struggle in this meta, they have many low hp aces and no good bomb carriers.

Thanks guys.

Edited by Celez

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Aces and their token stacking are a bygone era, all FFGs anti-Ace tech has flooded the game and when bombs layered on top of the gunner cake, it washed them out. So yes, that tech was designed for a stale and frustrating meta in which Soontir was winning Worlds year after year. 

It is still a fun upgrade in casual games where piloting actually matters and ships aren't selected for their current meta prowess.

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Gunner is an "insurance policy" card for expensive ships; if you're spending 1/3 to 1/2 or more of your squad points on a single ship, you want to make sure it's attacks count.  YOu can either do that by stacking offensive modifiers (rerolls, focus etc) or by taking Gunner as a 2nd shot if the first misses.

As others have said above, most of the modern fat builds no longer need Gunner.  Dengar and Quickdraw etc have their second attacks and other ships like Rey throw enough dice that they're unlikely to miss in the first place.  Then there's upgrades like Dengar crew, K4, Predator and Expertise which can help boost accuracy at a cheaper points value, and a lot of the ships which Gunner was useful against (mainly agility 3) no longer operate in the current competitive environment.

I still think there's a place for Gunner, though - and a lot of fun to be had with it -  just not on the dominant builds.  I like it on FCS Mist Hunter Zuckuss - Tractor Beam your opponent and they have to choose between taking a shot which will lower their agility and potentially move them into a difficult spot or face a boosted  4-5 dice primary with lots of modifiers.

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56 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Aces and their token stacking are a bygone era, all FFGs anti-Ace tech has flooded the game and when bombs layered on top of the gunner cake, it washed them out. So yes, that tech was designed for a stale and frustrating meta in which Soontir was winning Worlds year after year. 

It is still a fun upgrade in casual games where piloting actually matters and ships aren't selected for their current meta prowess.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be facetious or you're just mistaken, but Soontir has never won Worlds. Neither has Whisper, or any other list that relies upon token-stacking arc-dodging aces. 

IIRC a tie swarm won it first, then Biggs Walks the Dogs, and Rebel Regen won it the time before last, and every other Worlds has been won by a fat PWT of some sort. 

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1 hour ago, Herowannabe said:

I'm not sure if you're trying to be facetious or you're just mistaken, but Soontir has never won Worlds. Neither has Whisper, or any other list that relies upon token-stacking arc-dodging aces. 

IIRC a tie swarm won it first, then Biggs Walks the Dogs, and Rebel Regen won it the time before last, and every other Worlds has been won by a fat PWT of some sort. 

I suppose he was being sarcastic.

By the way, I just love when people tell me Empire won Worlds as well. Yeah, back when there was a grand total of FOUR SHIPS in the game. And the final match had all four of those ships on the battlefield, would you believe it?

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26 minutes ago, Kumagoro said:

I suppose he was being sarcastic.

By the way, I just love when people tell me Empire won Worlds as well. Yeah, back when there was a grand total of FOUR SHIPS in the game. And the final match had all four of those ships on the battlefield, would you believe it?

Is there a listing of the previous winning lists? I've gone looking before but cant find one. For some reason my brain keeps telling me there was a RAC + phantom in there somewhere (pre-nerf)

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22 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Is there a listing of the previous winning lists? I've gone looking before but cant find one. For some reason my brain keeps telling me there was a RAC + phantom in there somewhere (pre-nerf)

Don't have the exact lists, but I know for a fact the only time imps won worlds was the first one.

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26 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

Is there a listing of the previous winning lists? I've gone looking before but cant find one. For some reason my brain keeps telling me there was a RAC + phantom in there somewhere (pre-nerf)

It was pre nerf whisper and a mini howlrunner swarm. It lost to fat han and some z95s

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1 hour ago, Ralgon said:

Is there a listing of the previous winning lists? I've gone looking before but cant find one. For some reason my brain keeps telling me there was a RAC + phantom in there somewhere (pre-nerf)

This is off the top of my head, so I might be wrong on a couple of the details...

Year One...don't know, don't care. Worlds was like 20 people :P

Year Two: Paul with Rookie Pilot, Biggs, and two Daggers with FCS wins against Dallas with Howlrunner, Dark Curse (I think), and I wanna say five Academy Pilots. Howl had Stealth and Determination as far as I recall. 

Year Three: Fat Han (Predator, Engine, 3P0, R2D2, Title) and three Talas beats Whisper (Gunner VI FCS ACD) + miniswarm (4 Black Squadrons).

Year Four: Poe (R2-D2, VI, Autothrusters), Stresshog, Gold with TLT, and Bandit beats Corran (PtL, FCS, R2-D2, Engine) and Poe (R5-P9, Autothrusters, VI). 

Year Five: Dengaroo beats Corran Miranda. 

Year Six: uhh...Dengar Tel. Beats Miranda and...things. Biggs? Oh, I know Jess was in there....huh. Yeah, Biggs Miranda Jess, I think.

 

I guess if you're looking for something more accurate, just YouTube it. All the Worlds finals except maybe the first have been recorded, and they'll tell you the lists. 

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Gunner was mainly to deal with imperial aces. Token stacked 3agi ships were insanely difficult to hurt with 1 attack, fairly hard with 2, not that hard with 3+. Gunner basically either meant you WILL do damage, or you are adding attacks that burn his tokens so someone else can do the damage.

These aces are gone. Vader/Fenn are the closest that remain and Fenn doesnt behave the same way and Vader changed his game up anyway so hes not acting the same as before either. Plus, Gunner was overpriced on most platforms anyway (the fat turrets and Hounds Tooth is about all its any good on...for damage that is he's still seen for stressbot crap). I remember seeing people put it on a Phantom alot and always wondered why.... a 4die attack with a focus/TL is pretty dang hard to fully evade. Generally they just met with bad luck and landed a single hit instead of triggered gunner. I'd rather have rebel captive to make you not wanna fight me or tactician to piss you off.

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I still like Gunner on Braylen with the stressbot.  The idea being that you don't add the die from Alliance Overhaul (or shoot out the back), trying to intentionally miss and get a second shot for a second stress.

Haven't played my ARCs in the new meta (heck, I haven't played at all in months), so I have no idea if that is still helpful at all.

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5 hours ago, Ailowynn said:

This is off the top of my head, so I might be wrong on a couple of the details...

Year One...don't know, don't care. Worlds was like 20 people :P

Year Two: Paul with Rookie Pilot, Biggs, and two Daggers with FCS wins against Dallas with Howlrunner, Dark Curse (I think), and I wanna say five Academy Pilots. Howl had Stealth and Determination as far as I recall. 

Year Three: Fat Han (Predator, Engine, 3P0, R2D2, Title) and three Talas beats Whisper (Gunner VI FCS ACD) + miniswarm (4 Black Squadrons).

Year Four: Poe (R2-D2, VI, Autothrusters), Stresshog, Gold with TLT, and Bandit beats Corran (PtL, FCS, R2-D2, Engine) and Poe (R5-P9, Autothrusters, VI). 

Year Five: Dengaroo beats Corran Miranda. 

Year Six: uhh...Dengar Tel. Beats Miranda and...things. Biggs? Oh, I know Jess was in there....huh. Yeah, Biggs Miranda Jess, I think.

 

I guess if you're looking for something more accurate, just YouTube it. All the Worlds finals except maybe the first have been recorded, and they'll tell you the lists. 

Looks mostly right as far as I can remember. Year 2 the b-wings had Adv Sensors, not FCS, and Year 4 Nathan had a Protoype A-Wing along with Corran and Poe, I'm pretty sure. 

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13 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Aces and their token stacking are a bygone era, all FFGs anti-Ace tech has flooded the game and when bombs layered on top of the gunner cake, it washed them out. So yes, that tech was designed for a stale and frustrating meta in which Soontir was winning Worlds year after year. 

My research-averse friend, Soontir has never even made a Worlds final, let alone won.

For the record, the only Imperial Worlds winner was Doug Hothie's Vader + Mini-Swarm. The only other Imperial to make a final was Morgan Reid's Whisper + Mini-Swarm.

Edited by DR4CO

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